Japan Breaks with U.S. Allies, Buys Russian Oil at Prices Above Cap
wsj.com
wsj.com
Australia is the biggest supplier of energy and key minerals to Japan, reflecting Australia’s position as a reliable, safe and competitive producer of raw resources. Australia provides around two-thirds of Japan’s coal, and a third of Japan’s LNG imports. Australia also provides about 60 per cent of Japan’s iron ore imports.
and, just the other day [2]: The head of Japan's biggest oil and gas producer has warned that Australia risks undermining global security through a decision to "quietly quit" the international gas trade.
In an extraordinary speech delivered at a federal parliamentary event on Thursday, Inpex chief executive Takayuki Ueda suggested Japan had been rattled by government interventions in Australia's gas industry.
[1] https://japan.embassy.gov.au/tkyo/resources.html[2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-30/japan-warns-world-pea...
FWiW I was part of a mineral and energy intelligence group started decades ago that was sold onto S&P a decade ago ( mineral arm at [1] ) and the protocol there was to report solid factoids backed by solid references and where applicable create GIS links.
That was the product many paid good money to subscribe to, not our opinions or claims.
[1] https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/campaigns/met...
And for what reason? The world is full of infinite factoids, but you chose to post this? It's not unreasonable for someone to ask what you intend to purport.
I'm Australian so I chose snippets relevant to Australia.
Professionally we trawled, linked, and posted everything in minerals (or energy) relavant to exploration and development and put that up for subscribers to helicopter over and dig into as they saw fit.
Unfortuneatly this HN comment is too short to post the entire history of Japans energy imports|exports, companies, boards, shares, etc.
I've been in the intelligence game (gathering data) long enough that I habitually defer connecting dots as long as possible.
What is known is that Japan is facing a future energy shortage, they're addressing (some?) of that with new nuclear reactors (which take time), that Australia is making noise about keeping more of its gas reserves to itself or off the board altogether (fossil fuel aversion), and that energy decisions take timeframes of five to ten years to swing about.
Now we have Japan sourcing Russian oil.
Is this a long tem thing (unknown to me), is this a strategic move signaling that if Japan cannot get cheap enough short term energy from elsewhere then it'll go to Russia (probably).
I know nothing for certain, I'm interested in comment or input from others, and I threw out the little nuggets above as they add to the understanding of the bigger picture in which this is taking place.
I don't think this is about not wanting to sell abroad for climatic reasons, I think it's solely down to the east coast of Australia having to buy gas at spot pricing because their entire production is sold into the gas market instead of having a percentage reserved for domestic use at lower rates, like we do out here in WA.
For the East coast it's all about having a cap on gas prices and a local set aside.
For outside capital companies like the Japanese gas investors, from their PoV, it's about uncertainity and reduced profits.
They want to buy in at fixed capital costs and in return have a product they can take home (home ground security) and ship about to maximise profits (especially during a war fueled energy hungry period).
With our selfish demands of local resources for local markets at local shop prices coupled with political rumblings that come wih a change of Federal party that (however feasibly) foreshadow a possible greener Australia (hmmm, right?) ... well.
That's enough to have others in the energy pool hedge their bets a little and seek diversity in sourcing, it takes a long time to get new sources and it's no fun running low on energy.
They're expecting our newish Labor Gov to tear up agreements to fix this.
>"The consequence of these well-intentioned policies will be that the increasing energy demand in our region will be met by coal and not by natural gas," Mr Ueda told MPs at private parliamentary function.
>"The result will be much higher global greenhouse gas emissions and will make net zero by 2050 an impossible task.
>"On the geopolitical front, Australia's 'quiet quitting' of the LNG business has potentially very sinister consequences.
>He said the question of who would replace Australian supply into the market was front and centre.
>"Alarmingly, the 'inconvenient truth' is most likely that Russia, China and Iran fill the void," he said.
I don't think this is coincidence, and I do believe Japan has a lot to lose from the often talked about 'energy wars' given they have no resources to rely on domestically to fill these requirements.
It's just bluster from him, but it's bad that japanese resolve is breaking away from Ukraine.
Japan is oil and resource poor and is looking to have a more stable energy future pushing for more "next gen" nuclear reactors, etc.
In the meantime they have high energy demands that need to be met somehow.
The US has accumulated significant political debt in the recent years. They have significantly abused their position with the US dollars hegemony. In this recent conflict, the cost burdened Europe and the allies more than the US. Europe, except for Poland and the Baltics, does not seem to be too enthusiastic for this war.
I wonder if the US has a joker card or the downfall risk being a spectacular one.
Edit: Was just making a joke. I’m not a warmonger.
Invading Saudi Arabia is really complex because there is more oil coming from there than Saudi Arabia itself. Expect oil prices over $500 overnight.
Sanctions would be a reasonable argument I personally agree with
Your outlook is significantly more gloomy than reality
Take a look at the space around you. How many of the items you see were made in the US?
Not that they have a mountain of shadow debt built upon the biggest housing bubble the world has ever seen (by far) and an absolute demographic time bomb about to blow up their future...
> China is doing everything it can to signal to its own population that war with Taiwan is imminent
I haven't seen this at all, though it may well be true. What I have seen, however, is a sudden regularity in articles over the last few months on how China is a threat to Taiwan, how everyone including somehow China really seems to admit it's very much not a part of China, and how its allies need to be prepared and proactive about "defending" it from China.
Not saying Chucky isn't a bully, but I can't shake the feeling that going round telling people how you're rounding up the gang and are preparing to give him and his chums a lesson, isn't exactly the peace-maintaining de-escalation people think it is. Especially in the absence of an "if he tries something" clause.
Also not sure what "rounding up the gang and preparing to give China a lesson" means here.
Why do blatantly false statements about Europe keep getting upvoted on HN?
The European public overwhelmingly supports Ukraine and military aid to Ukraine:
https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20221205IP...
This also gives Russia a good will gesture.
The agreement to buy Russian oil was Ok'd by the US. This isn't a break, is coordination.
China relationship is strained for many reasons, Ukraine and their general support for Russia conducting the war is just icing on the cake. This has strained Chinese relations with multiple countries though (UK, EU members, etc.).
India I’m not seeing much in the way of change. The US at least didn’t really do anything different with India buying Russian oil.
US relations with South American companies are variable and generally slightly negative based on what I’ve seen, but I’m not really sure how they have gotten worse. What is leading you to believe that they are?
Saudi Arabia I somewhat agree with but think Middle East politics are extremely complex. Wouldn’t read much into Chinese efforts there.
On the other hand, the US has shored up massive support from all of Europe ex Belarus, Japan, South Korea, Canada, and Australia at a minimum. Finland joins NATO tomorrow.
Overall I’d say the war has been a large boost to American foreign relations on the whole. Can’t please everyone anyway.
W.r.t cost -> everybody is spending money. Russia especially.
> On the other hand, the US has shored up massive support from all of Europe ex Belarus, Japan
Regarding Japan this very news article contradicts you somehow.
> Finland joins NATO tomorrow.
Finland is insignificant from a geopolitical point of view. Its joining NATO only makes NATO less secure as a whole, rather than strenghtening it.
Why is that?
Strong disagree. With Finland, NATO's control of the Baltic sea is insurmountable. Together with Turkey's control on the Black Sea, this completely cripples any Russian maritime capabilities.
> rather it's a country in need of protection
Also unlikely. The geography of the Finish border is such that an invasion via land is incredibly difficult. Dense forest and mountainous terrain create many easily defended bottlenecks, and the Finns with their outsized artillery are in a perfect position to defend those.
Even without NATO protection, the Finish gave the Russians a very bloody nose the last time they tried to invade. Since then, the Finish military has been re-structured with the single purpose to defend against another Russian invasion, whereas the Russian military is constrained by many other factors. Any Russian advance against the EU now has to come via the Ukrainian and Polish plains.
This makes zero sense. Please elaborate.
> The dollar relevance is degrading
Can you give some facts and figures to support this ? Because as I understand then the world would be tradin in multiple currencies for Oil&Gas.
I did in another comment under this one. Would you elaborate on why the opposite would be true?
Meaning you don't need to only depend on your own Military capabilities in order to protect your borders.
Finland joining makes Finland's borders a FAR more expensive attack than was previously.
> joining NATO only makes NATO less secure as a whole
NATO is not an offensive/invading force. It's a defensive force. If NATO had what you're referring to as a level of security, it has only increased due to more forces available to respond.
It's that simple.
On the contrary, perhaps relations are not that good.
https://hindupost.in/world/target-modi-us-regime-change-mach...
> The US is working very hard, in full force to change Modi regime; its the top agenda item for the Hillary-Obama Cabal that is the real power behind Biden.
China and the Saudis are unlikely to somehow turn into genuine friends, and in China's case specifically the unified stance in Ukraine (as well as the "it's harder to invade than you might think" message) sends a bit of a message in the case of Taiwan.
The trade-off seems pretty acceptable.
China and the Saudis are the perfect match. Both are authoritarian regimes that do business. China needs liquid energy and the Saudi needs access to stuff and capital markets. The Chinese can now provide an alternative.
Call me when every European nation actually hits their required NATO spending amount. Until then, talk is cheap.
As an Indian, I detest the Russian invasion. In fact, a number of Indians do, and it's only a few vocal fanatics who seem to support Russia's invasion. None of us thought Russia would be stupid enough to invade Ukraine, and we all thought it was a ploy to raise oilprices by making up "tensions at the border". And trust me, the West's relationship with India hasn't changed. Rather India's relationship with Russia has degraded slightly, since India has begun programmes in every front to dispose of Russian military tech.
India continues to buy oil from Russia, as does Japan, China, etc, only because it's the rational thing to do - you're getting dirt cheap prices and you're an oil-starved nation, why wouldn't you be an opportunist? And if I remember correctly, the West leadership tacitly supports this arrangement as that helps stabilize oil prices for the West buying from the rest of the suppliers.
US relations with the other countries in the list have degraded but that's largely because of the Trump and Biden governments policies towards them, and less because of Ukraine.
I've been wondering about that. I imagined that countries buying weapons from Russia would be worried and considering to pivot to another seller. Maybe this not because of the poor display of those weapons in combat, after all they just must be not worse than the weapons of the neighbors or of the other internal factions, but because they could run out of spare parts and new items. If Russia doesn't have enough weapons to refill its own losses, it can sell some to get money, but not as much as one year ago.
I don't think that China is an option for India, so maybe the USA, something from Europe or internal production. The latter would be best because of no strings attached, but is it feasible in the short / medium term?
We just got 100s of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians killed so we could write a huge check to the US arms industry.
Do you relish the prospect of Russian troops on the borders of Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania? I don't.
Meanwhile US relations with Europe would be at the lowest level since WW2, it would be seen as an utter abandonment and betrayal of our shared values, including US treaty guarantees on the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. America's allies across the world would know for a fact the US could not be relied upon to support them. Russia would know this. Taiwan would know this. China and North Korea would know this.
They would also realise that this situation might only last as long as the current administration. There are some in the world that would see this as a golden opportunity.
> Meanwhile US relations with Europe would be at the lowest level since WW2, it would be seen as an utter abandonment and betrayal of our shared values, including US treaty guarantees on the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine
If you’re referring to the Budapest agreement, it’s not a treaty. And other countries should educate themselves and understand that unilateral commitments by the President that aren’t ratified by Congress aren’t worth anything.
That is being affected by the land war. As soon as the first tank went over the line into Ukraine there were going to be harmful global consequences whatever any other country did.
As for presidential commitments. Taiwans existential security is based entirely on verbal presidential commitments going back to George W.
Relations with China were already decaying, things seem normal with India, and Saudi Arabia is the result of Trump and Co kissing MBSs butt while in power. The Saudis are much more reliant on the US than the other way around
If there's a workaround, it's ok. Users usually post workarounds in the thread.
This is in the FAQ at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html and there's more explanation here:
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
'It’s not as if Japan can’t manage without this. They can. They simply don’t want to,” said James Brown, a professor at Temple University’s Japan campus. Prof. Brown, who studies Russia-Japan relations, said Japan should move to withdraw from the Sakhalin projects eventually “if they’re really serious about supporting Ukraine.”
Mitsui & Co. and Mitsubishi Corp. , two Japanese companies, collectively own a 22.5% stake in Sakhalin-2 and successfully pushed to maintain the stake last year with backing from Tokyo'
At least one middling positive of the invasion has been a litmus test for the levels of integrity of various countries. Russia annexed Crimea almost a decade ago. If you haven't read the writing on the wall and maneuvered independence you're incompetent or immoral.
I can’t really parse this. Why should Japan care about Crimea or Ukraine?
"Any reason" is a bit of a stretch — I doubt Putin has a dice with country names on it — but given how dumb it was to invade Ukraine, it's not unreasonable to assume he's dumb enough to try Japan.
One thing Japan has that Ukraine does not is a whole bunch of US military installations. (And a mutual defense treaty, but you know what they say about three useless forms of North American paper)
I don't, but I can guess where you're going from the context.
they have attacked several neighbours for no reason and have stated they wish to "reclaim" others
1. Russia hasn't stated a wish to reclaim other countries, even former parts of USSR. 2. Both military conflicts with neighbors Russia participated in: Georgia and Ukraine had very serious reasons and it was not Russia, that initiated both.
what would be better then?
RT I suppose?
Actions count more than words.
20 Feb 2022: "Russian Ambassador to the United States Anatoly Antonov denied Sunday that the Kremlin is preparing for an invasion of neighboring Ukraine..." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-ambassador-anato...
21 Feb 2022: Invasion!
I would have thought this kind of knowledge was in the table stakes for anybody with any kind of interest in the matter.
It's probably in their best interest not to signal "it's fine to forcibly annex someone else's lands".
What does Japan gain from the idea that one country cannot take another country's territory by force, if it is in fact Russia that is in control of these islands?
If anything, Japan would like them back eventually. All attempts at diplomacy have failed, so force would be the only other option.
That Japan most certainly doesn't want territorial disputes to be resolved by might and current possession status.
> If anything, Japan would like them back eventually.
Yes, and they'd prefer "Russia currently holds them, so they get to keep them" not to be precedent. Russia is attempting to set that precedent in eastern Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova currently.
If Russia „wins“ they could justify using force to free their „historic“ possession.
And if Russia „looses“ they can argue having military control does not imply ownership. And that usage of force to revert military occupation is legal.
After USA pressured Japan to sanction Russia and send military support to Ukraine, all talks about Kurils were terminated.
The countries that invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc. decided to sanction Russia, but it's their own thing.
Russia holds veto power. I guess it'll be pretty hard for UN to ignore it.
Japan was one of 15 votes on the UN Security Council to pass it.
Why should Japan care about it? For obvious reasons.
There are very long tensions between Japan and Russia about the Kuril Islands, that both countries have a claim on. It is very possible, that the same vague claims used on annexing Crimea today, or Donbas, would be used against Japan, and may not stop there. What is more, Japan is an ally of the United States since WW2, and seems to benefit much both militarily and economically. What is more, another raising power in Asia and growing tensions around Taiwan may have the same consequences for Asia, which may threaten japanese influence in the reqion. We are also seeing proliferation of nuclear weapons, and the threats and blackmail is rising, when deescalation is seen as a sign of weakness.
Usually, being united against common threat is the cheapest strategy, and to pay a few bucks less for oil might turn to be very expensive in the long run. If there would be no punishment for disrespecting international law, the chaos would come.
The list of "disrespecting international law" is pretty big. The list of punishment is way shorter and highly selective.
And what punishment are we talking about, voluntary economical sanctions? Those numbers of atrocities, stealing children, mass graves - I still can't understand how the international response is so mild.
This is an interesting little bit on the end of that question.
The problem with unlimited access to information is that you can find a thousand people arguing for a thousand different opposing things with all that information.
In my perspective, there is no doubt about japanese government stance on the matters in Ukraine. And any other non-totalitarian society. I am ready being convinced otherwise.
For the same reason your neighbor should care if someone breaks into your home, points a gun at your family, and says half your house is theirs now. Oh and no police are coming.
This also sets a precedent for other neighbors. Korea claims random islands and politicians sometimes call for extreme actions to defend them from Japan (Japan does absolutely nothing and Japanese people, for the most part, do not know of the existence of these islands). China claims random islands that Japan controls with some of the more extreme factions saying Okinawa in its entirety isn’t legitimately Japanese, so it should be independent. But also Okinawa used to be somewhat subservient to China, so eventually independence would mean being a province of China, just like Russia is claiming with eastern Ukraine (or even all of Ukraine, depending on the day).
And there’s also Taiwan, which if China sees people get burnt out with the Ukraine war and go back to normal trade in a year, gives them pretty good odds to rain down missiles then rush in and seize the land with minimum international backfire. And if Taiwan is easily claimed, there’s no reason not to pursue Okinawa and South China Sea territories. And South Sea conflicts would screw over Japan as well, since there’s loads of trade with Vietnam and other countries in the region, and Japan is heavily dependent on food imports from China and elsewhere.
Japan has a lot of reasons to care. If Russia’s strategy pays off (and it’s unfortunately seeming like it will, since people outside of the region are getting burnt out on it and Russian mothers will happily fight until their last son is getting picked apart by dogs), those same methods will be used in East Asia.
What an irony. Japan has to buy its own oil from Russia, from the island Russia seized from Japan.
also they murdered millions of people in very sadistic ways
After invasion of Iraq over 20 years ago it was clear that there is absolutely zero integrity anywhere in this world.