Hacker News Reader

Comment by flak48 | Hacker News Reader

London meanwhile, continues to ban personally owned e-scooters - allowing only rental e-scooters!

Seems like a very British solution to me (being a nation that cares little for liberty); if the police have had enough being constantly called to deal with another 10 being stolen today I'm not surprised they'd only permit company vehicles.

After all, there's no economic value to be gained in stealing them and the insurance premiums for destruction (including simply throwing them into the Thames) is distributed across the customer base. If there are thieves stealing them for parts they'll be easier to detect (since it's not plausibly deniable to claim a company scooter is yours).

Combine that with the fact that it'd be trivial to disable all transport in the case of civil unrest, and you seem to have a winning policy for Londoners.

That they have always been banned is an accident of the way a very old law on vehicles was written.

Making an exception to that law for rentals in limited areas was seen as more controlled than allowing everything, although looking at other cities allowing only non-rental usage first might be more sensible.

In the context of UK law, e-scooters are motorised vehicles which make them illegal to use on the sidewalk. However, they don't come close to meeting the legal requirements for use on the road (no turn signals, for example) making it illegal to use there. Personal e-scooters aren't technically banned (they are available to buy), but there is no where on public property where you can legally ride them (not that it stops people). Therefore, the only way an e-scooter can be used legally is if a special provision has been made for a trial with rental scooters in select locations (Oxford being the one that I am familiar with).

Interesting. Germany regulated all scooters a few years back (with additional local rules for rentals).

That means some required safety features, mandatory insurance, minimum driver age and rules about what part of the road you can use.

It seems to work quite well in practice, however, I question the economic viability of the business model.

In my ~80k inhabitants, touristy city I see them rarely used and the few times I took one they seemed quite expensive.

Bird already left the again.

From personal experience even police don’t care. Just don’t do anything too dangerous,I guess. In a way it’s better to operate in a legal gray zone because you don’t need to worry about things like licenses and insurance and fines etc.

maximising revenue and control from the authority

it makes sense in a way

Except the streets are still littered with them. While cycling to work a while ago, i came across one parked in the middle of a segregated bike lane, in between a fence and a lane of heavy traffic. If this is the authority maximising control, i dread to think what uncontrolled use looks like.

it's more control than letting people own them, in a certain aspect

of course, carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)

> carelessness is a problem but that also happens with so-called Boris bikes (Livingstone bikes)

no. They are returned to docking stations. Other schemes litter the pavement

perhaps they do it more

I live near the DLR and I see vandalised, abandoned Boris bikes on the regular

I see this nonsense every day https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png

The rental escooters in London are terrible. You need a driving licence to use them, unlike rental ebikes. Yet they are slower than an ebike or even a regular bike. They are also really expensive. Then add to that the fact that'll they all have geofencing which (i) forces you off the less occupied bike lanes or roads in many cases (eg in/near the Royal Parks - including roads which are open to cars) and (ii) doesn't work properly so that if you're just near to a "slow" area but not on it then you end up having to push them.

This is all entirely down to government enforced regulations - honestly I'm not sure why the companies bothered putting them in at all as they must have pretty well zero repeat custom.

Meanwhile there are plenty of non rental escooters on the bike lanes which seem to work pretty well for people, despite being technically illegal.

On the other hand, I enjoyed using them last year while in London for work. Could get to our office quicker than using public transport, it was more pleasant than stuck in hot boxes moving around and only slightly more expensive (at least in my case).

I'm pretty sure the taxi-cab lobby groups in London are heavily influencing these stupid decisions that make e-scooters a less viable option for getting around.

I don't have much to explain why they're banned from parks which allow you to drive a range rover through them.

Now ban them and their bike scheme counterparts in London. An absolute blight on the city.

Their USP is they can be left anywhere.

https://i.imgur.com/s59Bvf3.png

Those Lime bikes are terrific. Great for access to places that don't have Santander bikes.

Great for the fraction of a percent of Londoners who use them, terrible for every one else

I just walk past them when I'm not using them. Very easy. Hardly a problem.

Perhaps because you don't have a disability or a stroller with a young child so that you can comfortably and effortlessly avoid them...

If sidewalks could be wider it wouldn't be as much of a concern. Narrow sidewalks are to accommodate car parking more often than not. I would rather see less of that in a city centre.

The overcompensation is palpable

It's not clear what you are implying. Could you elaborate?

That you know these bikes and scooters blocking pavements is a social ill but you do not care because it is convenient for a fraction of a percent of commuters

Ah I see, thank you. I think they are a blight as well, but less of a blight than car dominance in city centres. If you can barely fit a pram past a scooter on your footpath, see the bigger picture, your footpath is tool small. You have given all your space to non-mixed road traffic or parking.

I've worked in London for near on 20 years. The people using these are not using them as an alternative to a car. If you look about in Z1 the congestion comes from poor road management and an uptick in commercial traffic.

But sure, as a plumber to come to your house on his bike. See how that goes.

The footpaths have been rougly the same around where i live for 4/500 years.

I haven't spoken about commuting at all. My core point is that car centric city centres sacrificed their space for people to cars, and that blaming scooters for the lack of space was missing the forest for the trees. The fact that you can't fit a pram past a scooter is the same reason businesses can't do alfresco dining, mothers on bicycles have to ride amongst cars, peds have to wait at crossings, walking anywhere is unpleasant and your children can't ride their bikes to school, etc etc. I am not going to pretend it hasn't happened and shift blame to everything but cars just because it's the current status quo.

Before cars your 400 year old road was mixed use, and your plumber certainly didn't turn up in a box van. When cars turned up, everything got pushed onto the sidewalk to make way for cars. It wasn't so long ago, there is no shortage of film of how cities used to be before cars.

None of this was remotely an issue a few years ago before these schemes were rolled out in my area, entirely invalidating your presumptions.

https://i.imgur.com/8piPcuf.jpg

These schemes provide value to the user because they can be wilfully discarded anywhere.

Had a motorcycle accident. Completely pulverized. ICU for a week. Got out and was driven everywhere for a while, but when I walked these were not a substantial burden.

They’re fine with a stroller mostly. From personal experience around Hackney, Islington and Haringey.

Not without problems, but still miles better than toting your car through a city centre.

The lime bikes are wonderful. I’ll fight you and anyone else who tries to take them away again.

You pic shows them towards a corner kerb with space behind.

They are blocking the pavement. They are a disease. Their value to you is derived from the inconvenience they cause to others.

https://i.imgur.com/oeQjcJS.png

Cars literally kill people.

They don’t always block the pavement.

They deliver far more to the city than they inconvenience. I say this as someone who has to push a stroller around.

https://i.imgur.com/j1bRBp5.png

I've been pushing someone in a wheel chair for about a year now. Trust me. This is no trivial matter

That's as logical as women retiring earlier than men. /s

Reply on news.ycombinator.com