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Comment by shtopointo | Hacker News Reader

Excellent vote from the people of Paris! It's too easy to take these things on the sidewalk, go 20mph and disregard the people around you. Those things also weight quite a bit, so getting hit with that may be life altering.

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I've heard there are some crazy people who try to drive vehicles weighing a tonne or more in the city at as much as 40mph, and they often find their way onto the pavements too. Perhaps Paris will treat that menace with the priority it deserves.

I know you're being sarcastic, but yes, Paris is absolutely treating that menace with the priority it deserves. They've removed parking and turned a lot of streets into pedestrian/bicycle only (with gates or bollards for emergency vehicle access). Most streets are limited to 30kph (18mph). Converted entire lanes of some streets to bike lanes.

https://www.childinthecity.org/2021/09/01/streets-to-schools...

Still not enough, on french r/fuckcars:

https://old.reddit.com/r/EnculerLesVoitures/comments/11chtfh...

This kind of shenanigans either leads to a lot more car lanes, or even less car lanes and permissions. Paris has tried "more", and they're really enjoying the safety, air quality, and convenience of less.

I'm optimistic they'll keep following the Dutch model. You've seen the pictures of Amsterdam in the 70's, after all.

No disagreement here. I personally think cars should be (mostly) removed from cities. It's incredible how much you can get done on a bike on a proper bike path + the rest 10% of cases could be handled by public transit.

They are electronically limited to 20 km/h in Paris and weigh no more than a bicycle.

Getting hit by a bycicle at 20km/h can severely injure you.

So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue

> So prohibit bikes then? I think government is more concerned about scooters competing with paid for transportation and hence reduction of revenue

If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around.

The article seems to refer to two main things: "reckless and drunken driving, as well as clutter on pavements".

In my Australian city (I think we were the first to legalise them) they are wildly popular but I can attest to both of these things being a huge problem. I literally just walked to grab a snack and on the way back I stepped onto the road and was nearly wiped out by a scooter coming out of nowhere - illegally riding on the road.

I have a collection of photos on my phone of scooters being left randomly around the streets, including across the footpath and even on the road in some cases.

There is an entire class of people who use these that are just completely selfish fuckwits and do not stop to consider everyone else when they abandon them wherever they finish.

I am 100% pro electric scooter. They need to have infrastructure like cars, for parking and storage and riding. My state has just announced pretty harsh laws for riders that violate them but they are not being enforced enough yet.

> If you read the article you'll see this is based on a decision by the city's residents, 90% of whom voted against keeping them around

This is a lie. I don't even need to go look anything up to call 90% turnout a lie.

Actual number was probably 7%.

but... nobody seems to be talking about banning bicycles?

They are banned from sidewalks.

E scooters are just as banned from sidewalks as bikes?

There's scooters and scooters. It's a bit of a misnomer but there are electric scooters that are like a Vespa scooter ('Absolute beginners') and there are electric scooters that are the ones that your kid would ride when they're 5 or so (plank with two wheels, you stand on the plank and 'scoot' with your other leg). The e-scooter of the latter variety is what is of concern here, ~20kg + rider moving at ~20kph (sometimes faster).

The former is definitely banned from sidewalks (though they are often parked there), the other is used on sidewalks quite frequently, in spite of that not being legal. They have shitty small wheels and are pretty dangerous for both rider and pedestrians.

if 20km/h is a problem, why can't they just mandate a lower limit city-wide. Shared e-scooters are already heavily limited and regulated, physically can't go faster than 10km/h in large chunks of the city center already. Unlike cars or regular bicycles, shared e-scooters can be physically limited to any desired speed with one flip of a central switch. A total ban seems like looking for a scapegoat.

Yet I see people riding bikes on sidewalks, usually on busy roads without bike lanes. Doubt the police bother ticketing them anymore than they do people riding scooters on sidewalks or without helmets. At least where I’m from.

In the U.K. out of london the vast majority of vehicles on sidewalks are cars. They are explicitly banned from driving on them except to enter adjacent property, yet nothing is ever done, and dozens are killed every year by those drivers.

I work in Paris but live in the suburbs (I wasn't asked to vote). I use neither scooter nor bikes (I walk and use public transport).

My anecdotal experience is that those scooters (as in "trotinette" in French, not what we call "scooter" in French) where a plague, drivers are completely careless and dangerous and despite the law, they where always parked in the middle of the street at annoying places. I have no such griefs against bikes, even if they are much more numerous (I have other complaints again those, like the fact they don't respect traffic lights, but it's far from being so annoying).

The overwhelming support of Parisians to remove them is not a surprise (they would get a huge backlash if they wanted to do the same with bikes, which kind of prove the fact that they cannot be put in the same boat).

Also there is the ecology argument which Parisians are typically somewhat concerned with (those crap scooter were fragile - so they had a short life expectancy despite having a large impact to build because of the battery and electronic - and the operators had no infrastructure to charge them cleanly - which means that overall they were probably much more ecologically harmful that even cars)

Practically all their weight is at the base. Your ankles or legs will be shattered if you’re hit by one.

Except bikes have a much larger turn radius and are much more bulky than a scooter. You can zip between people with a scooter no problem, but it is tricky to do with a bike. As someone who ditched a car for a bike, I had several almost-accidents with these things and it was always down to reckless driving and trying to pull stunts on these things.

It’s nice to spot the Americans under this comment going for the “it’s not guns that kill people, it’s people” argument.

I don’t agree with it, but I understand why people ride these on the sidewalk rather than the roads. A pothole under a 700c road bike wheel will be a jarring annoyance. A pothole under a scooter wheel will knock you off into the path of an oncoming cement truck.

The weight of the devices seems immaterial when the human riding it is 50kg to 100kg. You’re getting tackled by at least 50% of a linebacker but with 0% of the body armor.

I think it wouldn't matter what surface the road was though, people don't ride the scooters on the road because cars are scary and a scooter feels like Pedestrian+, very exposed. Same feeling cyclists eventually overcome to ride on roads.

All those things apply to bikes too. It really seems like societies ability to innovate has died completely with the rise of sedentary elderly populations (contrasted with mobile young ones) blocking all change.

Speed for example does not apply. I did not seen bikes going 20mph on sidewalk with people. Ever. Bikes can go that fast, but they lack agility and acceleration so they dont do it in different places - not on side walk.

Also, it is simply not true that only elderly dislikes these services.

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