Hacker News Reader

> Businesses underpay and when they can't find people willing to impoverish themselves to work for them, they apply to the government to bring in "temporary foreign workers" - for things like fast food restaurant workers not essential business, keeping the wages down.

> Temporary foreign workers and international students in canada are allowed to buy housing, so aside from renting the rich ones who make it here actually buy up properties for their family offshore.

If they're being paid so little, I don't see how they could possibly afford to buy any properties. I've only known a few, but they all send the majority of the money back home instead.

This feels very fear mongering on TFWs and not grounded in facts.

Some TFWs and international students some come from wealthy families in their home country and use whatever program they can to get into canada to get a foot in the door, and be allowed to buy a house here. I live in an east indian heavy neighborhood and I know a dozen people who were extremely rich before every coming to canada, far far more than the average canadian.

Make sense, rich people would have an easier time to immigrate. But how many of this dozen are here on TFW like you're suggesting?

I'm doubtful that it's TFW that are buying the properties you're concerned with, especially since they're still at the mercy of PR/work authorization laws that could make them leave the country at any time.

It _could_ happen, but that would be pretty exceptional. You want to complain about foreigners making house prices too high for you, you do you. Just be accurate in your complaints.

TFW are used to drive down wages.

international students do purchase houses for their families out of country - it happens more in some areas than others.

And if someone couldn't get in as a student, they might try to get in as a TFW and spend their family money on a home - I don't know how often it happens but its allowed because TFWs DO buy houses.

Speaking of students: https://vancouversun.com/business/real-estate/31-1-million-p...

I wonder how much of this issue is due to our (enormous) amount of immigration, given that fertility rate has been below the replacement rate since 1970 or so

I would have gladly had more kids if I could have afforded a place to put them. Do you know what a 3 bed condo costs in Toronto? It is financial suicide.

Less than in Vancouver. I have no kids and will never have any. I couldn't afford them if I wanted them

In my parents generation in communist Poland, people had 2-3 children families in flats no bigger than 500-750 sqft. When there's a will, there's a way, and people just truy wanted to have children back then. While nowadays, it seems that there's always some excuse in the way.

This. People lived more frugally, nearly never went on vacation, had very small cars.

Now it seems everything needs to be ready before having children: big house, big car, career.

Countries that have fertility rates below replacement should be encouraging immigration. Otherwise they're going to be facing some serious economic problems as their populations age.

some immigration is different than what canada is doing, which is mass immigration at a rate far outpacing most other countries. nearly 1/4 of canadians are immigrants, and we're allowing so many in per year that our housing and healthcare. Its too expensive to have kids for many young people - I have friends who would like to have them but can't afford it.

Are there any economists that support your theory? Namely that (if I understand your point correctly) immigration is hurting the economy more than it’s helping? Everything I’ve seen claims the opposite - but I’m open to new information.

Also, what support do you have for the claim that the existence of temporary foreign workers suppress wages for working Canadians? My understanding is that they are performing jobs that Canadians just won’t do and thus, their presence shouldn’t affect Canadian working wages (or so the theory goes).

They aren't doing jobs canadians wont do, they're doing jobs canadians wont do for the wages being offered. If they raised the wages, people would want to do them. Instead companies hire at very low wages, and very few people want to work for them, they apply to bring in TFW who are desperate.

Their presence suppresses the wages because there's a basically unlimited pool of people willing to work for suppressed wages. All businesses have to do is not raise wages and the prevailing wage is whatever they offer. Almost every tim hortons, mcdonalds, burger king, etc in canada is staffed with TFW. I'd rather they raise the wages or go out of business. Instead they import workers and keep wages suppressed.

What is TFW?

Temporary Foreign Worker: https://www.canada.ca/en/employment-social-development/progr...

We partially agree here. However the vast majority of TFW’s are farm labourers. This is gruelling, backbreaking work that am not convinced Canadians would do at any (realistic) wage. It’s also highly seasonal so not really a big help if people just go on EI afterwards. Furthermore, with grocery inflation what it is, what do you think would happen if the wages of the pickers doubled or tripled because they were done by Canadians?

I’ll tell you what would happen - People would lose their minds.

So… it’s complicated (at least in that industry). I’m not as convinced about the need for them in tech and restaurants because, as you say, they should probably just pay more and Canadians would do those jobs. But the numbers I saw don’t seem that significant so I’m not so sure.

Unemployment is also at the lowest it’s been in ~50 years so.. where would those new Canadian workers come from anyways?

There are no simple answers. That’s why I’d like to see what economists are saying. I know that with regular immigration, there’s a consensus among many economists that we need them so our economy doesn’t actually shrink due to low birth rates.

Here is an Australian site expressing a similar view about the Australian economy. One prominent poster is ex Australian treasury and has been featured on news programs on TV.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/

> Temporary foreign workers and international students in canada are allowed to buy housing

What?

Drug lords and warlords are allowed to buy real estate in the west through shell companies registered in tax heavens. It's the same companies that do 'tax optimisation' for our billionaires.

The head of Wagner Prigozhin has passed money laundering check in London while he was under sanctions and wanted by the FBI, he submitted his mother's gas bill.

https://www.ft.com/content/3e1b5bc5-090c-434d-84e4-ca2b120cf...