Another reply to Josef Průša
haerdin.se
haerdin.se
Despite claiming to want to remain open source, any license that bans "1:1 clones" would, by the very definition Prusa endorsed[1], not be open source.
If you actually read the original by Prusa, you will see that it is mainly about 2 things:
1) GPL and other license violations by 3d printer manufacturers
2) fraudulent local patents on things already in production and on market by competitors (who intentionally did not use patents to protect their IP)
If this article was a assignment in a language class, I would grade it a "F" for missing the mark completely.
Concretely: the mk4 talks about having input shaping, but doesn’t come with an accelerometer, which is needed for that to work well. The sovol 06 is a much more affordable machine that has similar motion system to the ml3/mk4
The xl really should be a fully enclosed printer like a voron trident or bambu x1 carbon. (The latter two have similar ).
If you ignore all the alternatives to prusa machines that are out there, they’re reliable machines that do the thing. But there’s so much amazing stuff in both community driven open source printer designs and also much more affordable manufacturing of the open source designs than you can get from prusa.
Also the level of qc needed to make a one time calibration at factory be accurate for the lifetime of the printer would require an order of magnitude more expensive machine and a service contract to maintain it.
I own 6 printers, 0 Prusas, because I like modding them and don’t see any reason to pay Prusa to give me a better starting point that I’ll just then undo.
Prusa printers are no different in this regard.
I don’t care about any features of the Bambu line and would continue with Prusa line. They are nice sure but they aren’t that much cheaper with that much better features. You didnt really mention these jaw dropping world changing features so feel free to fill me. I hope it’s more spaghetti detection.
As for the bambu, I’m getting voron level performance out of it, though admittedly with a much less open machine. I was using a prusa mini much of the past year but I quickly hit a lot of rigidity issues with its frame that were impossible to address without a total rebuild.
I guess for me the issue is simple: most of the plastics which I want to build stuff with (whether for engineering reasons or haptics of how they flex and feel) really require / benefit from enclosed printing. Pla is an incredibly strong material, but it can’t really handle any flex without brittle failure. And I just don’t like that.
I’m also in the process of putting together a voron v0, which I expect I’ll use even more due to sheer speed and ease of heating.
Nylon and asa and tpu are just so much more gratifying in my use cases.
I can print tou all day, you can’t really compare the mini because it’s not direct drive and it’s a Bowden. I bet if you had a proper MK3 you wouldn’t have any issues with your filaments. The mini is the mini for a reason. I want to do asa and nylon but the fumes… eww
What I was trying to articulate is that a bed slinger motion system requires a much larger enclosure than a core xy motion system or other fixed/z axis bed designs. So that if you have any real estate constraints and want an enclosure, bed slinger becomes non viable. :)
I agree that the fumes are bad, I use a spare bathroom with always on ventilation for mine.
The unfortunate thing is that the volatilized chemicals/ and particles in pla and petg are also not super great for people, they’re merely less terrible smelling
Input shaping requires an accelerometer for calibration. On a bedslinger like the Mk4, you need two sets of measurements - one for the toolhead and one for the bed, because both are moving and both can experience different resonances. The Prusa solution is to pre-calibrate input shaping from the factory; this is less than ideal, because printer resonances can be substantially affected by the surface that the printer is sitting on. The user could re-calibrate input shaping, but that would require them to connect their own accelerometer module to the motherboard and find some means of jury-rigging it in place.
https://blog.prusa3d.com/announcing-original-prusa-mk4_76585...
Input shaper calibration is affected by the surface that the printer is standing on. If your workbench happens to be more or less rigid than the surface the printer was calibrated on at the factory, the calibration won't be accurate. The input shaper could fail to correct for some resonances, or correct for resonances that don't exist. This will cause visible artefacts in the print.
Other printers at a similar price point offer one-touch calibration of input shaping, or automatically calibrate before each print as part of the homing and warmup routine. On the Mk4, you need to buy an accelerometer module, figure out some way of attaching it to the printhead and the bed, then run the calibration routine twice.
To use a metaphor, Prusa made the very best, reliable car you could buy. Then a bunch of similar cars, that were pretty good were released. And a few really amazing Sports cars were released. And Prusa showed up again with a really reliable, solid car. And people are mad because they thought they were going to be bringing out a flashy sports car.
Speed boosts are welcome but that doesn't mean everyone needs to "overclock" to get the absolute best performance. And if you do want to do that, couldn't you add an accelerometer later?
The point is without people taking a stand on open source, there won't be anywhere else to spend your money that is open source.
The challenge of a profitable, open source business model is very real, but also very surmountable -- as evidenced by Prusa's existence in the first place.
Thinking one has to straddle the line between philosophy and pragmatism is a false dichotomy. Open Source is a movement, not a binary.
Prusa exists in what I hope is a time of transition from capital/ownership mindsets into a new type of open market. Wanting to straddle the fence in the name of profits shows once again Prusa only partially understand the movement they benefit from and namecheck frequently.
Comparing Prusa to Marc Jacobs to emphasize the brand over the product is genius.
Behringer products are often half the price of other audio gear and have a matching reputation for suspect quality.
https://www.reddit.com/r/audioengineering/comments/6bqb18/ar...
And it's especially not theft when the products are made and sold in a western country that has a much more sane patent system than the US: if your product isn't registered in Germany, any German person can legally create their own copy for the German market, as rightly they should. And then the US can put an import ban in place for those products because if they were sold in the US they would be infringing on the patent holder's right to market. Again, as rightly they should.
And lo and behold, thus it came to pass, and no markets were actually impacted.
(and as fun, related trivia: look up the Samwer brothers. Because there is no such thing as international patent law, there is only "you get to register in every jurisdiction you want your brand protected in" and if you don't, then anyone is free to clone your product, because you gave them permission to do so. Whether you like that or not.)
You can probably understand why that might not be considered a constructive contribution to most discussions.
A similar sentiment is echoed in the post A reply to Josef Průša by Stargirl Flowers, but this time in regards to Uli Behringer. This despite Behringer engaging in the historically progressive task of cheapening audio hardware by copying other designs and manufaturing and marketing them at scale (putting aside Behringer's litigious behavior). Stargirl calls this competition "parasitic", despite also citing the proliferation of Stratocaster clones and the benefit thereof to musicians.
Didn't know /r/HobbyDrama existed either. What a world!
My hot take is that in the consumer commodity market, Prusa is losing market share to Chinese competitors. Consumers are extremely fickle and price-sensitive. What I think is interesting is that Prusa also has market share among small/medium manufacturing shops - although I have no idea if this segment is growing or shrinking. The strengths behind the Prusa brand (open-source ethos, reliable work horse machines, longevity) make Prusa a clear winner if I need to allocate capital for 20x 3d printers in the ~25cm build volume category.
I see Prusa XL as an important stake in the large-format B2B 3D printer services market, and it makes sense that consumers aren't 100% satisfied with the current developments (large-format 3D printers are historically not oriented for the consumer market). I think it's exceptional that Prusa is applying their open source ethos to large-format 3D printing, which tend to be closed software/hardware ecosystems with a retail price tag of 5-10k USD.
In the synth world, they have released out of production, extremely rare, and extremely expensive synthesizers. I think in most cases, they aren't necessarily copying so much as re-releasing because they are often products that the original manufacturer either refuses to or can't (in terms of lacking the engineering capability) re-release. And sometimes, the original company is not even around anymore. Behringer has its own chip manufacturing, which helps it achieve low costs. But they do also directly copy active and on the market products. These are much less justifiable.
Sorry for the reductionist take but something about this article irks me. Surely there’s room to complain about the expense of giving in a growing room of takers. In software we have the wonderful AGPL. I can see why Prusa wants something to help grow an open source hardware community without rewarding takers.
Also you cannot “help grow an open source hardware community” with closed source hardware.
>Průša incorrectly states that "there are 1:1 clones of hardware or software on the market that do not bring anything back to the community". But the cloners do bring something to the community, namely lower prices.
The author either fails to realise or simply doesn’t care that the lower prices come at a cost. Relying on cheap Chinese clones is an evolutionary dead end. They aren’t going to open source their hardware ever.
You also can’t get lower than free on open source software. So all the Chinese forks will essentially get closed.
Prusa is stuck and doesn’t know a way out. They built their brand on being open, but that will surely force them out of business.
Even if they weren't, there would have been clones and the clones would have shamelessly copied the non-open product as well. This is a problem with our global manufacturing system in general, not a problem with three printers specifically.
You can't invent and sell anything right now because it will be immediately stolen and turned out for next to nothing. The answer to this is generally stronger patent protection and international trade deals that recognize the damage is a sort of copy cloning does.
With this model, people all over the world can benefit from our work. If we tried to go the route with patents and traditional funding, we’d end up designing a farming robot which only works well for large farms in California and would be too expensive for most of the people we want to serve.
Patent protection in many ways slows down innovation. 3D printer development was pretty static for the first 15 years and only advanced significantly after the patents expired. Then people all over the world contributed ideas on how to make better 3D printers for cheaper, and in ten years the price went from $25,000 to $250. Under patent the price only ever dropped from $50,000 to $25,000.
So you can see how open innovation produces a lot of value. The “problem” with this is that the value is hard to capture. This is what Prusa is experiencing today. Your solution is to lock down information harder and use the threat of legal action to restrict the spread of ideas. Unfortunately this creates a system where people in wealthy countries are constantly doing engineering for things which could benefit people in poorer countries, if only they were cheaper. Clones allow for cheaper versions to be made locally in the poorer countries where their labor costs are lower. But with widespread patent harmonization most countries can’t legally clone important goods, so they go without.
What we can do in the wealthy countries, instead of locking down ideas, is to explore new way of organizing our companies and projects. Countless people make a living asking for donations on YouTube. We see more engineering projects supported by this model, including Godot ($15k per month in donations) and Blender ($185k per month in donations).
This kind of open innovation can allow engineers to pay their living while producing products that are open for all. Imagine how much benefit the rest of the world would see if all of our MRI machines, manufacturing equipment, and other vital technology was open source?
For me it is imperative to find a way to make it work. Abandoning this would to me mean that I have failed those people that need my skills most. Those whose lives would be forever changed with increased access to advanced technology. I can not lock down my work and keep it out of their hands. They deserve better.
[1] https://community.twistedfields.com/t/january-2023-update-ne...
Every product now tries to have a cloud component with encryption. People like the article author are why.