That's not fun at all, I'd never have imagined such a level of selfishness!
What would happen if a well meaning editor added those trails though, is there automated removal or would OSM get in trouble?
What would happen if a well meaning editor added those trails though, is there automated removal or would OSM get in trouble?
When I go climbing I have to buy a local guide documenting all the historical climbing spots; the persons that sells the guide are the one that equipped and maintened these historical routes : is it selfishness ?
Unless "I have to buy" is a mistranslation.
Seems easy and efficient. You don’t need to charge mandatory admission and collect money (like is done in the US) you just sell an optional map in local stores. Makes sense.
I have hiked sections of the PCT without seeing another human for a week. Other western trails are even more desolate.
Also backcountry trails are rarely marked, except at some trailheads. The government maps were mostly made in the 1970s and contain trails that don’t exist any more (and of course don’t include newer trails).
My preference is to carry topo maps + compass and carry a small GPS for emergencies if I cannot locate myself.
In Canada the typos are quite good but have in my experience even less trail or stream information.
In both countries I recommend planning trips with someone local who knows the territory.
As a long distance hiker, I can promise that this monetary decision will result in wilderness rescues if not tragedies.
Even trails that have free apps there are people who try to go without...
If it's in OpenStreetMap, they can easily follow established trails using an app they are used to. I.e. less erosion. And when they get lost or injured, use the app to self rescue.
If the permit only covers a small area and it's not at the trail head, through hikers will rather buy a permit that covers the whole route.
Wish this was true everywhere!
To start with, the official law enforcement, and park maintenance is managed and facilitated by the state, payed by the tax payers.
Secondly, the associations like the one mentioned above, although making use of the resources of their members, are in part being bankrolled by the state. So, again, payed with tax payers' money.
Thirdly, the association, labelled an association of public benefit, should fit the following definition: "Elle n'exerce pas d'activité lucrative. Sa gestion est désintéressée. Elle ne fonctionne pas au profit d'un cercle restreint de personnes", or, after loosely translated: 1) It should not be profit driven 2) Its management should be selfless 3) It should not function at the benefit of only a restricted group of people.
And it this case, it sure sounds like point 2 and 3 are put in doubt with their patent and intellectual property fighting nonsense barring open maps from including their paths.
Beyond a recognition for the time and effort invested in the maintaining of the markings on the hiking trails they trace, it really looks like a disproportionate and misplaced application of intellectual property rights.
And taking into account that a lot of tax payers' money is making the entire endeavour possible, it would make some sense to return a bit of that value back to the tax payers by making the markings available for free in openly accessible maps.
Source? Because that Wikipedia page does not state that: no word about France, Italy and Spain, and just a little "freedom to roam" in UK and Germany.
In France, you can enter any open landscape and bivouac there, unless the owner directly states you cannot. The law also forbids to build anything too near to the sea, breaking access to the coast. Private beaches are forbidden. Isn't that more than in most neighbouring countries?
> Even in the US, our trails are largely maintained by volunteers, non-profits, and federal institutions.
It's the same in France: mostly unpaid helpers from associations and paid workers from municipalities.
This sentence is silly. France is smaller than Texas.
France has 2,000 miles of total coastline (before considering access); Alaska alone has over 6,600.
A more sane comparison would be share of coastline with public access, or maybe for some purposes per-capita public access coastline. But absolute miles of public access coastline is silly.
The original comment was "Nothing comparable exists in the US". Given that the entire West Coast and other key beach recreation states like North Carolina and Hawaii have stellar laws on public access, the root comment was simply not true.
They’re not charging toll. They’ve got an outdated funding model based on selling maps, and they’re sticking their head in the sand. But what are the other options? Go to the taxpayer? Put up advertising billboards on the trails?
You can totally find the GR and walk through it without a map.
Now that’s challenged by the internet
Very logically, if I were to plan a 2 week hike without a map in the past, I would go to a village that's on a GR path, walk one week and then go back. I never felt unconscious or in danger, I had no cellphone and no map
I’m pretty sure that until the 21st century, nearly everyone doing the gr5 for example would have bought a map
It's very common near where I live for the agencies who manage trails and other unique spots to opt-out of GPS-enabled maps (like Avenza) and to actively monitor social media to ask that people refrain from naming 'photo opp' locations.
This sounds like a good example of not enjoying nature properly.
A very common occurrence is for miles of trail system to be accessible by less than a dozen parking spots. This is not convenient; and that is on purpose.
Another common thing where I live are preserves that are only accessible via paddle, and only via membership in the organization (often a land trust, sometimes another kinds of nonprofit) that stewards the land, and sometimes only if you are lucky enough to "win" a reservation. (That process used to be by mail, like Grateful Dead tickets; now it is a single morning when everyone wakes up at 6 and tries to snag a reservation online.)
There is simply no way to allow mass access and maintain the circumstances that make these locations special and worth preserving. In the US, the most popular state parks (where wild landscapes are ruined, wild animals molested, and deadlocked vehicle traffic are the norm) are an example of how attempts to do so fail.
For better and for worse, France is one of those.