Hacker News Reader

Comment by elihu | Hacker News Reader

Thinking back on my life, I can't remember a single example where I ever got a job just by submitting a resume. Either I already knew someone in the organization or otherwise had a relationship with it to begin with (e.g. I got a summer grounds job at a University because I was already a student there), or I met someone at an event who was looking for people to hire.

View on HN

I've gotten all of my offers from cold applications. Didn't know anyone, just submitted an app through the ATS and got an email that led to an interview then to an offer

But how does that even work? Even if you know someone at the company, at some point you have to apply online, to get into the real HR pipeline.

I occasionally have people I used to work with ask me for help getting a job. I usually encourage them and give them some interview pointers, but ultimately I have to say “Here is the link to the posting, go apply and good luck!”

I am just employee number 52214. I don’t have an HR button I can push that says “fast track this swell guy!”

Most companies have a referral system.

You also know the structure inside: meaning you can say hi to a hiring manager you may or may not know, and say “check this guy out - I vouch for him”

My most recent job was with Intel. I got invited to some kind of recruiting event, I'm not sure how. One of my friends was trying to get me to join, so maybe he sent them my email address? Or maybe they spotted me on LinkedIn? I have no idea. Anyways, I ended up talking to one of their senior engineers on the project they were hiring for. I can't remember if it came out then or later that that senior engineer was a college friend of a guy that founded a startup I had previously worked for. Not sure if that made any difference or not, but I had relevant experience in the area they were hiring for, so they brought me in for an interview. (Which turned out to be an all-day ordeal, but I passed.)

The startup I had worked at before, I was hired because I went to a local un-conference, Portland BarCamp. I ran into someone I know from the Personal Telco Project, which started back in the early days of 802.11 wireless networking and was trying to promote free access points around town. Anyways, he knew someone else there that was hiring for a startup, so he introduced me and we talked and I went in for an interview and got the job.

In either case, it's not like friends are directly getting me jobs (as far as I know), it's more that my network of acquaintances aligned in a favorable way and I was in the right place at the right time.

What is an un-conference?

Never heard that term before.

It's like a conference, but there isn't an attendance fee or pre-scheduled presenters. At the beginning, there's a big board with a grid of timeslots and rooms. If you want to give a talk, you write down your name and what the talk is about on a sheet of paper and stick it in one of the grid squares. If it sounds interesting, people will show up.

BarCamp started as sort of a reaction to an O'Reiley event called FooCamp which was invitation-only, and in Portland it ran for a number of years until it got replaced by Open Source Bridge which ran for a few more years. I'm not aware of anything like it in Portland now, which is a shame.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_Camp

Interesting format. Never heard of it before.

Except my most recent job where I used a recruiter, I've only got jobs by submitting a CV. One was a huge company with an official application process (Dyson) and the other two were startups via email.

You definitely have higher odds with a more nepotistic route, but I think he's still right - most jobs go to applicants that apply using the standard process.

My experience is sort of in-between on both sides. That is, there's some submission process people go through, but connections of some sort definitely draw attention to some applicants more than others. Sometimes someone is brought in with no obvious connections, but sometimes someone is basically brought in sidestepping the open process too. Usually it's a bit of both, leaning towards connections of some kind. Sometimes the interviewers or interviewees aren't aware of the connection, although usually one of them is.

And I've only ever gotten jobs through resumes. I have no family, friends, or acquaintances. Most people wouldn't willingly be in my presence were it not for the fact that I can occasionally be useful to them. And I rarely leave my home for anything other then absolute necessities to eat and maintain personal hygiene.

I assume you at least have some level of charisma that would make others think of you positively at combined with skill. As well as some willingness to go to events as you say.

You and I think though are somewhat exceptional in that regard; I assume most people would have gotten their jobs with a bit of a mix of the two in varying ratios.

I've gotten my last two offers -- as a senior engineer at Dropbox and as an engineer at a top-end quantitative trading firm -- from cold resume submission without any networking. I also got interviews in this last round from both Jane Street and Hudson River Trading based purely on a cold resume submission.

Admittedly, my resume is excellent, but jobs can absolutely happen from just sending in an application and a resume. Even really good, high-paying jobs.

As a counterpoint, every single job I've ever had I've got by submitting a resume. I have worked for six companies at this point.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com