Game Over: Steam won’t Run on Windows 7 and 8 after January 2024 | Hacker News Reader

Game Over: Steam won’t Run on Windows 7 and 8 after January 2024

arstechnica.com

83 pointsPaulHoule82 comments

Steam runs fine on Linux, FWIW. KDE's a better Windows than Windows these days.

Does Steam run on Ubuntu 9 (or kernel 2.6)? Because that's what was current when Windows 7 was released.

I think some people stick with Windows 7 (and Windows 10 also) not because they can't upgrade, but because they prefer not to.

On Linux you really have all the same options as you did with Ubuntu 9, you can still get Mate which is basically where Gnome was then, you have a mostly similar userland, the kernel is way better and faster now, what would keep people on Ubuntu 9?

On the other hand, Windows seems to get more resource intensive with every release and the UI gets worse, why would anyone want to upgrade other than EOL?

I think Win 11 itself is just fine but you really have to turn off numerous annoyances. For instance, I uninstalled Teams because i was sick and tired of being harassed to use Teams, then I joined a meeting for the first time with Teams and found the web version was problematic (couldn’t find my microphone, randomly sent sound to my headset or the SPIDF sound bar, showed only the depth channel from my RealSense camera.)

Maybe it is fine, but is it better? Is it good enough to spend the effort to upgrade to if you did not have to?

What about the introduction of systemd? snap? X to Wayland? (I am not expressing an opinion on those topics, merely pointing out that things have changed since then in Ubuntu too.)

Why would that be relevant? People stick with those old Windows versions because of an aversion to Windows 10 and 11, not because they are doing some kind of period re-enactment.

A more relevant question would be if modern Linux distros support the hardware of back then (they tend to).

You can get the same experience of Ubuntu 9.xx on modern Ubuntu, with full support, by just using Ubuntu Mate or installing the `ubuntu-mate-desktop` package. If you want a Windows 7 experience on Windows 11, you have to resort to third party hacky tools that Microsoft absolutely will not support.

more importantly, do the games run?

Yes, the release of the Steamdeck did wonders for pushing AAA gaming forward on Linux.

There was just an article on the front page earlier today about 75% of the top 100 games on steam running on linux, with the remaining 25% mostly being due to anti-cheat software that isn't updated to support linux yet.

Protondb.com has a database to search for compatibility and if adjustments to command lines or a specific version of Proton are needed for getting games running.

You can look at https://protondb.com for compatibility of games.

That's very impressive.

"75% of the Top 100 Most Played Games on Steam Are Playable/Verified on the Steam Deck"

https://boilingsteam.com/75-of-the-top-100-most-played-games...

The system also does pretty well in the long tail. There's even a set of older (and some newer) games that run better than they do on modern versions of Windows - not a huge number, but not nothing and probably growing over time.

At this point, the largest problem left to solve is perhaps achieving pervasive support for anti-cheat middleware by multiplayer games, which requires vendor participation. A few have started collaborating, but there is more to do on this front.

(Disclaimer: I work on KDE and worked a small bit on the Deck at some point.)

"work"

Beg your pardon?

Out of those 75% some of them don't work properly as they do on Windows.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I agree, there's a gulf between "Playable" and "Verified" and the latter is a much smaller % (the source has numbers at least).

Playable is good enough. It may have small text, keyboard only references in text, or other minor annoyances but a playable game does work on deck. On desktop or laptop linux for many of them you may not notice any issues at all.

honestly I have to disagree. I use kde for work 8-5 m-f for the past two years. I still prefer windows 10 ui and features over it. kde isn't terrible, and I'd choose it over windows 8, 11, or any osx ui. but windows 7, and 10 just are seamlessly good for me. everything I need is only 2 clicks away, intuitive navigation, and stable.

I really dislike KDE and Gnome, they seem to be chasing Windows and MacOS, but those are horrible, so they became horrible.

The beauty of linux is that you can use any or all.

and best thing: you don't have to setup stuff for hours, it just works (yes, not ALL the games). Same goes for the framerate, just check youtube for your favorite game to compare Linux/Windows framerates. There is a good chance fps are even higher on Linux.

Same goes btw for battle.net (even Diablo 4 seem to work)

I'm on Linux for work related stuff since years now and switched recently entirely to Garuda / KDE

My fps is massively worse in sim heavy games (stellaris, rimworld in particular) when running native linux ports. The only exceptions are Java games like Minecraft or Starsector.

Not sure about the Proton versions TBH...

Another issue I have in linux (even in Proton) is presentation smoothness, as Windows tricks like SpecialK or fast/enhanced sync are missing on linux.

There are a handful of games where my best experience is playing the Windows version on Proton/Linux. For a few games, this has been better than native Windows on Windows or native Linux on Linux. It seems weird, but ...

Looks like Steam for Linux is supported on Debian 8 (2015) or newer. So it runs fine on Linux, but only Linux that is newer than the latest Windows release losing support today: 8.1 at 2013.

Or to phase it another way: Steam on Linux has worse backwards compatibility.

8 years of no upgrades is not the norm for desktop or laptop linux machines. Old hardware is still supported on newer versions, and you can have an equivalent desktop experience on it today as in 2015, so there's no reason to not upgrade.

Windows folks don't upgrade because upgrades change a lot, newer os is unsupported on older hardware, and/or newer versions have become extremely user hostile.

> KDE's a better Windows than Windows these days.

Came to the same conclusion recently. And if you really want to sqeeze as much resource as possible out of your rig, game on openbox. Works wonders.

Would've preferred locking it into offline mode with a permanent warning banner. There's something sacred being violated when you can't run an offline application on the exact same hardware and software on which it was originally purchased.

The death of media ownership has been ongoing for a while, this is another little nail in the coffin. I try to purchase games directly or use GOG but its not always an option.

You can run a large percentage of Steam games without Steam anyway (they just don't call the Steam DRM methods and don't tell anyone), and most of the rest work with a dummy steam_api.dll.

> The main culprit, according to Valve, is the built-in Chromium-based browser that Steam actually uses to render the Steam store and other bits of the UI. Chrome dropped support for Windows 7 and Windows 8 right around the same time that Microsoft ended support for the operating systems earlier this year. Versions that still work in Windows 7 and 8 will be susceptible to security bugs and, increasingly, rendering bugs and other functional problems as time goes on.

I doubt Valve is doing anything on the leading edge of web design that only a minority of systems are able to support. I figure it is just HTML, CSS and Javascript. If they stick to standards, it'll just work. Security bugs aren't really an issue because you are just using the Steam app to navigate 1 site, Valve's. You only see what Valve presents.

OS support being dropped by an app should only be done because the app is dependent on APIs, etc. that only exist in newer versions of the OS. Not because it is "fashionable" to drop support.

so you're saying Valve should release software that, if a bug appears in this now unsupported Chrome version, is now susceptible to this bug that will literally never get fixed?

Perhaps I am not thinking dastardly enough, but why would a bug appear though? All the user can do is click on links that Valve has provided. If the inputs are from pre-defined sources and within pre-defined parameters, why would anything happen? Nothing is being executed on the end-user side, it's all running off the server. All the client does is renders/plays what it is sent.

Steam's in-game overlay has a fully user-controlled browser running on the same engine. Some people use that to open something like a game wiki, and malvertising is a real risk. (In addition to just wanting somewhat secure browsing as a baseline)

Also: I'm not sure if links sent in Steam chat, when viewed in the overlay, open there or with the system browser.

Steam has been on the forefront of security and things like two-factor because their attack surface is so wide. If they used an old browser, someone is and would work to try to figure out how it can be hacked somehow.

"We've decided it's ok to have a dependency on a software component that's no longer supported. We believe security bugs won't be an issue because of [XYZ]"

I would not want to be the engineer that has to explain/defend this position.

> Security bugs aren't really an issue because you are just using the Steam app to navigate 1 site, Valve's. You only see what Valve presents.

I don't think you want to explain that to the payment processors that also run within that same embedded Chromium when you buy a game on steam.

> OS support being dropped by an app should only be done because the app is dependent on APIs, etc. that only exist in newer versions of the OS.

"In addition, future versions of Steam will require Windows feature and security updates only present in Windows 10 and above."

I still see tons of people claiming Windows 7 runs better for them, but the WDDM updates have made Windows 10 far smoother for me, at least on a non VRR display.

It’s wild to me that support for Windows 7 is ending when it felt like the windows world was stuck on XP for like fifty years

Tons of people skipped Vista, but Windows 7 was released just eight years after XP, in 2009.

Seems like the relevant date would be when windows 8 was released as new PC’s would have had 7 before then.

I can’t imagine it’s worth supporting the vanishingly small install base of Windows 7/8 machines out there.

I can’t particularly imagine why there is any appreciable Windows 7/8 user base outside of enterprise machines that are, like, running CNC mills and will just never need to be updated.

It is less than 2% combined (7, 8, and 8.1) according to the most recent Steam Survey. Plus all three are EoL from Microsoft, and are now losing Electron support which Valve said is a motivator.

> are now losing Electron support which Valve said is a motivator.

Steam doesn't use Electron, it uses the older CEF to integrate Chromium (but your basic point stands).

Why? Because every new version of windows comes with more invasive features, less user control, and more processes doing stuff you didn't ask for, for purposes that aren't in your interest. Also, some machines that came with win 7 might still work perfectly fine for a bulk of someone's Steam library, yet would struggle with win10 and even fail compatibility with 11.

I can't say I'm interested in maintaining a win7 steam box at this point, but I do sympathize with holdouts, as I'm deeply disappointed (though unsurprised) with where windows has been going since then.

Windows 7 went out of extended support 3 years ago. That means no security patches and poor support for newer titles. If people want to run something else than Win11, Linux has good support on steam

Windows 10 still has far better compatibility than Linux, with few downsides.

Especially if you play with friends that are on Windows, it’s the only way to guarantee you aren’t the odd one out not being able to try a new game. Or even play an old one after an update.

Windows 11 or 10, it doesn’t matter. Your PC might be fine today, but who knows what will happen tomorrow? Microsoft is a master of disaster, wreaking havoc on your machine with every monthly patch. Just last month, March, there were reports of SSD speeds being halved by their meddling.

I really wish they maintained a public API for clients rather than trying to shove a web browser in a client as they have now. You could support a theoretically infinite number of system via the API itself, even if the games aren't as playable on something like a NetBSD 2000s era machine.

An API to do what? They could just offer direct download links like GOG, but most games implement at least Steam's basic DRM.

Most of the client is just HTML and CSS, the store would (I assume) still be private no matter what. It'd just be nice to be able to make custom launchers that still work with the steamapi.dll stuff

I don't think steam is interested in fragmenting their store into many clients via public APIs. Maybe they could but there isn't really a compelling reason for them to support a 2000s era machine.

What I would like from steam is the ability to zoom within their app - I can do it in a browser but in steam you're stuck with whatever desktop zoom you have in windows. It's 2023 and I can't resize the window and zoom the contents?

> "What I would like from steam is the ability to zoom within their app - I can do it in a browser but in steam you're stuck with whatever desktop zoom you have in windows. It's 2023 and I can't resize the window and zoom the contents?"

For what it's worth, this exact problem exists on Linux (and I presume Mac) as well. We have some workarounds and "hacks" for it on Linux, but none are very palatable.

Steam won't even let us use TOTP (e.g. "Google Authenticator"), obfuscating the TOTP codes for their home-grown authentication mobile app.

Good thing we have proton. That's doing for PC gaming what emulators did for console preservation.

Almost surprised they don't just do some WINE-on-windows on inconvenient versions. Might end up solving problems both forward and backward.

That seems like something GoG[0] might do, with its semi-focus on making old games playable on modern systems.

While their launcher also uses Electron, users aren't obligated to use it. Games are DRM-free and can be downloaded through a regular browser.

[0]: https://www.gog.com/

Wine has some Windows backend support (partly because of ReactOS), I wouldn’t be surprised if one day Valve make Proton run old games that are no longer supported on Windows.

Any ideas to prevent the fatal update from taking effect? eg. Run Steam in Offline mode and block IP's?

Could someone sue Valve for pushing this out and breaking their PC? The damages being the total purchase price of all the games to which access is lost? (Didn't someone win a lawsuit a while back against Microsoft after they auto-uograded her PC to Windows 11 without her consent?)

Tech moves on in one way or another, no surprise here.

Arch Linux has been my gaming go-to for a year now.

Opportunity for other stores (especially GOG) to continue supporting old versions of Windows.

My expectation is that they won't explicitly announce an end to support, instead the launcher will update and then cease working on these older versions of Windows.

It happened to me on a 2013 era Macbok laptop I had around for testing stuff and is my only mobile computer. I had Steam with soem old games like Half Life on it and my son could play on it when bored. Steam like a piece of shit of software bricked itself so one day you could no longer paly your games.

Sorry I did not had the energy to calm down and research how to undo this shit.

Did you update your macbook? Any MacOS install 10.15 and later can't run 32-bit apps, which half life is.

Anyways, get a copy of bootcamp and black mesa, then enjoy half life in all of its updated source 2 glory

Honestly , I hate the laptop and the OS, I only had it because I was forced to, for testing stuff. The DVD drive is also broken so I would need to waste time finding a way to install Windows from USB(and Win installer is always a bitch complaining of missing X and Y), then find all the drivers.

I just wish a simple thing, I close a laptop for half a year and when I open it it should work, same if I open a 20 years old PC and want to run Doom it should not prevent me to do it because some developer used Chromium for it's interface and now they are too lazy to provide paying customers a way to use the shit they bought/rented.

The same reason that steam is dropping support is a reason for those other stores to not have support as well.

You shouldn't be connecting EOL operating systems to the Internet anyway, so unless they did something like build a time bomb into old versions of Steam rather than just stopping you from upgrading to newer ones, why does this matter?

This might do more for Linux adoption than any one event ever has (or will)

Not really. Win 7/8 is <2% of Steam users.

Which is still larger than the percentage of Linux users.

Have you heard of steam deck? It runs linux.

FWIW, Steam survey has Win 7 64-bit at 1.43% of users, and Linux as 1.27% of users.

If those Windows users did switch over to Linux, it would have a significant impact on the % of Linux users. https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...

Hopefully "Steam deck runs Linux" is enough to persuade people to try Linux.

Yes, and I even have one. Doesn't change the fact that Linux is the least popular supported OS.

I kind of wish it would, but I'm doubtful, Linux has serious popularity issues for reasons which I don't get. Windows and MacOS is just worse, and it is not particularly close. MacOS is a dumpster fire, and the one redeemable feature it has is that it can kind of run the same userland as Linux, and that is enough to make it suck less than Windows, which, as we see now, can't even figure out how to keep the games market.

But still, people will eat what Microsoft feeds them by the spoonful, and ask for more, regardless of the quality.

I think linux suffers from discoverability/friction associated with adoption.

Consider the competition; what OS do you get with an apple machine? I dunno, whatevers current. What about a windows machine? Probably the most recent one but if you dont like that you have at most 2-3 other options you'd realistically entertain and they just arent that different - the more recent ones are considered to be worse broadly speaking so it isnt a very difficult subject to get acquainted with.

Contrast that with linux in which a question like 'whats a good distro for a beginner?' is likely to start a flamewar. A prospective user is essentially asked to developer a level of expertise and buy in before getting started that the competition does not require.

Im guessing that this will offend you so I want to make it perfectly clear - this isnt a value statement, just the recognition that friction in onboarding causes people to leave. This is just human nature, there are likely a number of choices you make that boil down to expediency that others would characterize as 'eating whatever was offered by the spoonful and asking for more'.

> Im guessing that this will offend you so I want to make it perfectly clear - this isnt a value statement, just the recognition that friction in onboarding causes people to leave.

This is quite accurate, not sure why you would think it would offend me.

Oh just pattern recognition, quite glad to be wrong though.

As soon as Linux gets as usable as Win7, I'm switching from linux. From Win7. To KDE (most likely). And not to anything else.

Why is there an itch among devs to drop Win7 support? Does it lack something THAT important in its API???

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