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Comment by yalogin | Hacker News Reader

Folks here who used scratch with their kids, what is the next step after scratch? How did you introduce a language/platform to your kid? I have introduced python and my kid is able to pick it up, but am unable to come up with projects that sustain interest. It feels dry without UI and one shouldn't be doing web dev with python too. So what is the progression for python and kids?

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After scratch, we tried this:

- https://www.codemonkey.com/ (mix of block programming and python) . Step by step guidance. A lot of kid-oriented UI/fun stuff.

- https://codecombat.com/ (python or JS). Still have levels, hint etc but the solution is less straightforward (sometimes I'm even stuck trying to help my kid!)

- If your kid is advanced enough, try https://open.kattis.com/

One common problem that kids encountered that's not straightforward is debugging simple coding issue (e.g. missing colon, mixing variable names, etc.) Even with great guidance from the platform, it's very common for kids to run into this and the compiler error is not helpful. A parent/teacher with programmer experience is needed to unblock.

For our kids, the progression has been:

- Scratch Jr.

- Scratch

- Replit

Scratch helps them understand programming concepts such as variables, lists, conditionals, and events, but still in an intuitive visual programming interface.

Replit gives the kids access to real programming languages (JS, Python, etc.) but with lots of support, and the same "remix other people's projects" culture.

Indeed, our kids have found that there are a LOT of Replit users in their early teens (12-15), and they all help each other out.

What projects do your kids complete on replit? Are they following youtube tutorials or first party content from replit?

I'm in the process of testing out the following on Middle Schoolers:

microStudio includes all you need to write code, create sprites and maps for your 2D game. All from your web browser. Your project is stored in the cloud, accessible from anywhere.

Write your game code in microScript, a simple language inspired by Lua. The documentation is always there to help. Create cool demos in just a few lines of code.

microScript shines by its simplicity and interactivity. But you can also code in JavaScript, Python or Lua if you prefer.

https://microstudio.dev

Also recently found https://www.solarus-games.org:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq7rda5G6Lc

Starts out with some default RPGMaker style tools (i.e. tile map editor, sprite manager, enemy manager, etc.) but subtly introduces Lua to enable mods to the default game making tools so you can make your own Zelda like games.

Wish me luck!

https://www.hedy.org/ is billed as an incremental bridge from Scratch to Python, with built in learning aids and teaching aids.

I used this with my scout group a while ago, kids 11-14. They loved it and went way further with this than I ever expected.

Kids had no experience with any programming language, no Scratch, no Python etc.

I showed my younger kid some stupid JavaScript tricks in the browser developer console and he was off to the races, looking up how to make splashy buttons and the like. So I got them the "Get Coding" books, which are HTML/JavaScript. He's on to more elaborate things now.

I also showed my older kid some JavaScript and Python after he had messed around in Scratch for a while, and he was mildly interested and then went off to do other things. So YMMV because my mileage certainly varied.

Roblox Studio is, by far, the most encouraging environment I've see for kids. Being able to easily share a multiplayer 3D world with friends is a HUGE motivator. My 6yo has been using it almost daily for a few months now and things like Scratch never held his interest for more than a few hours total. Only downside is you need a decent PC for it to be usable.

I've heard great things about Roblox Studio in isolation, but it's just so unfortunate that it's tied to a proprietary platform that uses dark patterns to profit off of children.

Agreed, to an extent. I had major arguments with my first kid over things like 10,000R Dominus'. It was a source of arguments for days at a time sometimes. I was on Linux at the time so I couldn't even play the games to see exactly how scammy some of them are.

However, he grew up, and when our youngest got into it, our oldest immediately took my side when his brother started the same kinds of arguments and, somehow, he was able to instantly get through and convince him spending Robux on that level is very dumb. I've since gotten back on to Windows and it's been an absolute treat to play with our youngest ever since. I wonder if I had just been able to play with our oldest, if those arguments could have been avoided entirely. As lame as a lot of the games are, they can be pretty fun to play with a kid for a bit and they don't seem to care too much about the stuff being sold when they have someone in the same room to play with.

A few years ago I struggled to find a good next step to go from Scratch to Python. A couple of platforms advocated the approach of have one tab with block code and another with the equivalent text-based code. That didn't seem to work, because it was just easier for the kid to stay in the graphical tab and not really absorb what was happening in the text-based code.

I ended up making something myself, a web-based Python tutorial that uses Turtle graphics and trinket.io. It's more of a tutorial and not gamified and doesn't have substantial projects like building games. It introduces Python elements in steps where the student has to use them to draw some graphics using Turtle. Worked out pretty well to get my kid launched in the direction where he now does more substantial Python projects.

Added: I structured it using the PRIMM approach.

I think it's best to just leave them with scratch until they get bored of it. Eventually, if they end up having a passion for programming, the fundamentals built there will help them immensly at picking it up. Be careful not to force your own interests on your kids!

As someone who learned programming with scratch in elementary school, the next step they did was using DrRacket but honestly I did not like it. I don’t remember anything I made with it but still remember my scratch projects. I think pygame would be a good next step as it is batteries included and let’s you build similar gui applications with an event loop. However, I haven’t used scratch since around 2010 so it could have evolved a lot since I used it and the concepts might not translate anymore.

At the Code Club for which I volunteer the next step is Python. We use the Raspberry Pi projects[1] which use the Tinker[2] repl.

[1] https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/projects/about-me

[2] https://trinket.io/

MakeCode is pretty amazing. Options for it are the micro:bit, an 8-bit arcade system, or Minecraft. Switches between block-programming and Python or Javascript, so you have an easy path to text programming.

For 'real' programming, once they have their python chops, have a look at https://anvil.works

BBC microbit is a decent transition in my experience. It gives a couple sensors and simple LED and sound output built in which helps come up with ideas for playing around with it.

The IDE also allows you to switch back and forth between scratch and, I think js or python, and see the code output of the scratch you've written.

I put my kids through both scratch and khan academy javascript. I've found that it helps them come to terms a lot with the underlying mechanics of scratch and my oldest is now graduating onto building web apps. When my child hits a hurdle and feels like doing something easier they go back to scratch.

turtleSpaces is a text-based variant of Logo with both 2D and 3D modes that runs in a web browser. Its syntax is very similar to Scratch, and it's less picky about formatting (doesn't care about white space, etc).

You can make 3D models (for printing), 2D artwork, and 2D and 3D animations and games. Once they're able to create things with turtleSpaces, it's much easier to move on to Python, Lua or Javascript

https://turtlespaces.org/weblogo

Shout out to empressplay and her teammate(s) (sister?) for their work on turtleSpaces, an underrated, solid implementation of 3D logo in golang that can run on the browser. I've used it to teach children, and they've quite liked how easy it is to create 3D games and animations that can be looked at from any angle. Thank you for creating turtleSpaces and for the endless work adding features, fixing bugs, releasing new versions and quickly answering questions! I've no connection to it other than being a grateful user.

Roblox could be good. The marketplace is such that you can drop them in and have them create practical things, while deciding how in the weeds of actual coding they want to get into.

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