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Comment by seydor | Hacker News Reader

The purpose of most eurocrats is to write long reports to other eurocrats justifying their time and expenses. It's normal to see people claim authority on things they have very little idea of. The recently-caught MEP who took bribes was apparently in charge of science and tech, AI & blockchain , and the things she would say in public were astounding. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylCxsN3qlkU?t=5m30s

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Making cynical blanket statements about large groups of people doesn't do anything to address any kind of issue, and instead normalizes negative behaviors both within that group.

Within the group, the more people believe that it's the norm, the less social impetus there is to address individual bad actors.

Outside that group, people are less likely to treat people fairly if they are perceived to be part of a group of bad actors. How is someone making a positive difference supposed to navigate an environment where everyone assumes they are bad actors?

Finally, pointing to a single case of someone who was arrested for corruption among literal thousands of bureaucrats does not make a compelling case.

i m not within that group -- very few people are within that group and the vast majority are unelected and unaccountable to us. I m not the only one complaining about the brussels bubble. dont try to shift the blame on us

my experince with eurocracy is from projects i ve participated in

> are unelected and unaccountable to us

Elected ones are so accountable - lets see

1. Iraq war - Tony Blair mislwd parliament, as cobcluded in official report, not held to account

2. 2008 - noone held to account

3. Brexit campaign broke electoral law - noone held to account

4 - Covid responce in UK involved handing out billions to political donors for PPE that did not meet legal requirements and so was burned.

5 - Trump...

In fact I striggle to think of a recent disaster that was caused by a civil cervant or eurocrat

> How is someone making a positive difference supposed to navigate an environment where everyone assumes they are bad actors?

By increasing transparency and accountability.

I have observed multiple instances where someone had proposed that and been shorted down by the crowd e saying, we don't believe it trust you because you (work in govt, represent a company, are in $political party). Clearly that doesn't work.

That's because it's not the propositions that need to be transparent. Politicians are great at explaining their grandiose propositions. It's the actions taken and the results that need to be transparent.

your response contains some very valid points around the dynamics of groups with bad reputations. You point out real negative consequences.

But you misidentify the group being criticized. it's not euro bureaucrats.

it's literal morons who take ownership and responsibility over things they don't understand well enough to even surround themselves with advisors who know what they're talking about.

I've seen this attitude from many very wealthy people, a willingness, a bravado even, to be ignorant about what they do for a living, e.g. I met a dude who told me had a software business, but he didn't even know what programing language his own property was written in.

what really sets me off is their unwillingness to find out. (oh, and that this are the kind of people at the top of our society)

You'd be surprised by the large number of EU civil servants with fake/complacency PhDs. There is a cottage industry of PhD candidates writing theses for EU servants, for $$, to make ends meet.

I think the problem is that humans are going to be human. We hold our bureaucrats to a high standard, so if the group contains a few bad eggs it spoils the reputation of the whole group.

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