Comment by vanilla_nut | Hacker News Reader

Comment by vanilla_nut | Hacker News Reader

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No, you cannot.

Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS.

Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's developer signatured and certs.

Old versions of iOS get some, but certainly not all security updates.

And most importantly... so, so, so many apps, from banking to navigation to music, insist on checking your app version and blocking usage with a massive dialog box if you're a couple of weeks out of date. It's incredibly obnoxious, especially when some of these apps update 2-3 times a week and each update is >100MB. I try to use those services from a web browser these days, but Safari is so limiting you can't even reliably block ironic "download the app" banners.

And that's to say nothing of actual cellular advancements, like new LTE bands and 5G and voLTE, which older phones understandably can't get... but which certain phone providers use to kick old phones off the network. For instance, AT&T no longer allows any activations for phones not on their (very limited) voLTE whitelist, since they shut down 3G.

Like OP, really wish I could just use the 2016 SE for the next 10 years. But even though the hardware is capable the software industry has pushed it into the "legacy" bin.

You can install any version using AppStore++ which is available when you jailbreak. The older the phone, the easier the jailbreak.

You can always download the app version that works for your phone using the Purchased section... the only real phone I have yet to be able to do this for is the iPhone 4 which did not have 64-bit apps.

My iPhone 5S and beyond all have access to every app that is available for 64-bit OS. It's often an older version of the app but that's kinda the Apple burden.

This is out of the question for any normal user and is also not reliable at all. When you install a Jailbreak you are by default giving up on a plethora of apps which do proper checks and they won't work at all even if you try to bypass them (banking especially).

Older iOS versions have other problems as well. Safari is not an app that you can update, it's part of the OS. A lot of websites will simply stop working for you if your version is too old.

You have to run a version of iOS compatible with jailbreaking, and know how to jailbreak. And then you have to maintain your likely tethered jailbreak that doesn't persist through reboots. And accept that you'll never get any security updates, even for major vulnerabilities.

Sounds like a lot of hoop jumping and a lot of caveats. Even I, a pretty tech-savvy individual, wouldn't want to bother with that on my primary phone. Let alone ask a non-technical friend or family member to do so.

I didn't say it was easy. It's made a pain in the ass by Apple themselves.

However, it's not realistic to say "it's impossible"

You clearly haven’t tried it. My kids still use an 11 year old gen four iPad every day. It’s absolutely incredible for the $500 or so that we paid for it. We’ve gotten 11 years of entertainment out of it.

The old apps still install just fine and we’ve never had to make any effort to maintain it, or fiddle with operating systems or software or anything.

It’s hard to imagine a better value from a device like this, especially when you take into account the amount of time you would have to spend managing something that had more software freedom to it.

I've tried it with the two iPad2 devices that I still have. Here are a few things that you cannot do:

1) Anything that requires MFA via Apple.

2) Full backup/restore will not restore old versions of the apps. New versions are either unavailable or don't work.

3) Any popular streaming service such as Netflix/Amazon Prime/AppleTV.

1. If it requires you to enter a code from another device on an older iPad, it tells you to enter your password + MFA code in the password field.

2. You can manually go in and download “the last compatible version”

3. Netflix is usually good about supporting old devices. Amazon disabled an older auth protocol. Apple TV+ videos can be accessed via the web (tv.apple.com). While Safari seems to always redirect you to the app, Chrome for iOS doesn’t.

It seems the other way around: you haven't tried it for the regular use, only as an entertainment platform for kids No, old apps don't work just fine, for example, one of the most popular messaging apps in the world drops support for old devices

This ship has sailed when people accepted that everything lives in the cloud and companies can dictate what you can, can't and must do with your own property.

The last thing they cannot take away and cannot control is offline physical goods, like books for example.

>> The last thing they cannot take away and cannot control is offline physical goods, like books for example.

Not really. E.g. can download mp3 music and mp4 movies on my own HD and so far Microsoft Defender hasn't deleted them.

Really does like going after cracks though :P

See my other comment about the ability for any iOS device back to the original iPad to be able to download “the last compatible version”.

But to your point, even on a 1st gen iPad - at least the last time I tried a couple of years ago - you can still play music you bought from Apple using the Music app. As far as I know, iTunes still supports every iPod and iOS device ever made.

I purchased a used iPad for reading sheet music and it turns out it's so old none of the apps on the appstore will install and most web pages won't even load because it doesn't recognize the SSL certificates.

At least I can still load PDFs onto it.

You don't need to downgrade iOS if you never update it. I agree with some apps becoming unusable because vendors force updating. This is similar to all other industries though (albeit faster-paced): I can't play PS5 games on my PS4, it is hard to get replacement parts for my 10 year old vacuum.

As I said, I'm still sporting a 11 year old iPad and using it for what it can do. It works for me. But I'm not expecting to use it like a modern iPad with modern software.

I agree with the device reset, that sucks. I never had to do that so I hadn't thought about this.

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software

This is not true and hasn’t been true since around the time that iOS 7 came out.

About two years ago, I dusted off an old first gen iPad (circa 2010). I reset it and I was able to download “the last compatible version”. It’s option given to you by the App Store. I was able to use Netflix, Hulu, Crackle, Spotify, Google Drive to read PDFs.

It's an option given to you if the app is already in your purchase history for your AppleID. If not, then you have to find a newer device, sign in to it with your AppleID, download the app and then return to the old device and hope that a compatible older version is a) available and b) still functional and that the devs haven't turned off any server-side stuff that the older versions relied on.

You can still “buy” iOS apps on older (still available for download) versions of iTunes using the same Apple ID and then downloading an older version on your device.

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software.

Not only can you use old versions of software, you can download them again if you reset your device.

Visit the purchased tab in the App Store and select the app you wish to download again, and you will receive the last compatible version for that particular device.

The distinction here is choosing which version you want, not "the latest / maximum version the developer allows to be used for my device".

For example I just got an update to an app I've been using for a while. The update will sunset the app despite there being no online component to it. I'd kinda like to downgrade now, but the latest version compatible with my phone would be his sunsetted one.

What app are you talking about? I've never seen a developer set the "last compatible version" to something that intentionally breaks the app.

There’s also apps like Cooking Fever (the original is a great game to play with kids)

The latest version tacks on so many ads and “free to play” IAPs that it’s an entirely different game (and tbh one that’s no longer usable). It’s good enough and holds enough nostalgia for me that I would pay $2-5/yr to keep it clean but that’s not an option any more.

Thankfully I have been keeping backups over the years (iMazing) and so I was able to spend some time going through old versions to find a good one, but that is only a solution if you’re planning ahead or if you have a time machine.

Those versions don't stick around forever, unfortunately. A couple months back I reset my iPhone and it wasn't possible to download the Pebble app any more. My watch still works fine, especially with Rebble cloud services, but the app was just unavailable on the app store. That was the nail in the coffin that got me to switch to Android.

Again, you have to look in the purchased tab of the App Store. This allows you to continue to download apps you downloaded in the past that are no longer available as a new purchase.

You forgot the tiny universe of all the new apps you might want to try on an older device, what you describe only works for the apps you've already purchased

> new apps you might want to try on an older device

In that case, you borrow a newer device, sign in with your Apple ID, and download the app onto that device. Now that app will be in your purchase history and you can download the last compatible version for your older device.

This advice is as useful as "permanently borrow a newer device"

All you have to do is get the app into your user account's purchase history. You can do that on a borrowed device and immediately hand that device back to the owner.

...and do that every time for a new app. Again, "all you have to do" is buy a new phone

Apple keeps the OS current on it's devices for twice as many years as most Android device makers. Are we pretending that the sort of person who keeps the same device for up around ten years is the sort of person who constantly loads new apps?

5G isn't an actual advancement however. For most of where I live, in a major US city the effective bandwidth is either 0 kbps or 0.1 kbps. Why would anyone choose a technology that doesn't have any actual function?

If I use LTE at least I have some usable bandwidth.

Agreed, but as carriers phase out 3G and replace it with 5G your older phone will develop dead zones where it can't use the only service available: 5G.

Not enough of a problem for me to start using 5G yet. But eventually it'll force my hand.

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