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Comment by blindriver | Hacker News Reader

Every single girlfriend I had, I asked her to get off contraceptives because of the medical dangers and I didn't want to be responsible for any problems associated with it. Instead I took responsibility for making sure she wouldn't get pregnant. One of my girlfriends actually got mad at me because I was *too* careful about getting her pregnant, and interpreted that as me not wanting to get married to her (which since we're not together ended up being true I guess).

This doesn't work for everyone but I'm fairly responsible, and no accidental pregnancies, so it worked for everyone I was with. The same way went for my wife as well, and we have 2 kids now, with no accidentals ones. I'm going to teach my son this as well, that the responsibility is on both parties but as the man you need to control what you can control and don't leave things to chance, especially something as life changing/destroying as an accidental pregnancy.

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Wow. I'd probably break up with a guy who "asked me to get off contraceptives". If you want to be responsible about preventing pregnancy, that's fantastic. If you feel like that's any more than an input to her decision of whether to be on it, that's a pretty fundamental overreach.

Maybe I'm being overly generous, it seems like it may be possible for this kind of thing to be more of a request out of support/concern for a loved one's health, rather than one of control or knowing better than a woman. It has been my understanding that many men don't consider such things.

My lady has had horrendous experiences with hormonal contraceptives. Based on what we know of it, if she ever expressed wanting to try it again, I'd ask she reconsiders, or that we explore other options. She would appreciate that as being thoughtful (not as me claiming to know what's better for her, better than herself.)

Maybe it's all about context, I'm not sure

> Maybe it's all about context, I'm not sure

+100

For everyone the circumstances and relationship dynamics are different.

And it's kind of disheartening to read a well-intentioned comment, see people assuming their own completely different context and then getting slightly aggressive about it.

Well, we've also been given the context that at least one person in the relationship got upset with the demand.

It's only disheartening to me because woman live in a society where men perpetually behave like we know what's best for them.

What you're reading as aggression, I'm reading as a reasonable response to a perfectly plausible alternative interpretation, which is that he knows what's best for his girlfriends better than they do for themselves.

So many men have this corrupt mode of thinking that there is now an entire US state issuing bounties on women seeking control over their own bodies.

> woman live in a society where men perpetually behave like we know what's best for them.

Everyone lives in a society where everyone else behaves like they know what's best for them. Men currently happen to have more power to enact their plans, but it's about power, not about gender, and all people who seek power think that they know best.

> a perfectly plausible alternative interpretation, which is that he knows what's best for his girlfriends better than they do for themselves.

We are literally commenting on the article confirming using hormonal contraceptives increases the risk of cancer. So if your partner is using these you basically have two options: 1) ignore the issue and maybe not even mention it to her as this could be misinterpreted as influencing her decision, 2) address it out of pure concern for her future, even years ahead when you're no longer together.

3) bring it up to make sure she is aware of this possibly new information, and assume she will use it to inform her decision making? What do you think I meant by providing input to her decision? What on earth made you pull out the straw man that you can’t even influence them?

Go to any relationship subreddit and you'll see countless comments where the slightest misstep is treated as some indellible sin. It's terrifying how quickly these people would forsake a loved one. So many unbelievably jaded and cynical people influencing the thoughts of others.

Discussing changes to birth control decisions in the context of a long term partnership is not, in my opinion, the same as having a policy of telling every woman you date to stop using contraceptives.

You're right. However they did say they "ask" not "tell"; it was not necessarily a demand. It's hard to know exactly how the conversations went

Meh. It's not particularly controversial so you're being overly dramatic.

I didn't force anyone, we had an adult conversation about it and all my gfs were on the same page. If any one of my gfs wanted to stay on contraceptives in the first place, then great, I would still do the exact same thing to avoid getting her pregnant in case she missed a day, etc. My wife wasn't on contraceptives in the first place so it was basically a non-conversation.

I think having an adult conversation is basic expectations for any healthy relationship. If you interpret broaching a subject as being cause for breaking up with someone... well, that's your prerogative.

Communication is a two way road. When you're talking about a sensitive topic and people don't know the context of you who are, don't be surprised when you are interpreted in a negative light.

Based on your schoolyard dismissiveness here, it looks like they're spot on and you don't actually care much for adult conversations. You can dismiss that all you want but when people view us negatively in situations like this, it only hurts ourselves, so it's usually our responsibility to communicate better

I don't feel the need to expend energy on anyone who immediately takes an overly negative opinion on a fairly benign sentence. We both know that nothing I say will change anyone's opinion, so why pretend that I should defend myself?

> Meh. It's not particularly controversial so you're being overly dramatic.

you're denying you have any unconscious motivation to "be controlling," as you again display in your response to GP's reasonable personal opinion.

I thought the overly negative response unreasonable, and I have enough experience on the Internet to know that nothing I write will change their opinion, so I don't want to extend the conversation.

I don't feel any particular need to defend my "Internet honor" and if anyone wants to interpret my post as some Handmaid's Tale order for women to submit to my demands, well that's their prerogative.

Asking someone to change their medication because of the longterm health implications is not just broaching a subject. It is saying that you both have the same information and you believe they have come to the wrong decision - or, more likely, you believe you have better information on the topic and she should be guided by your wisdom. If you can’t tell the difference between that and “broaching a topic”, well, that’s not terribly unusual. If what you think you actually did was “tell all my girlfriends that I will be a completely reliable partner in behavioral contraception so that she would be safe from pregnancy without hormonal birth control, and then go away secure in the knowledge that she could make this decision based on her own evaluation of the risks and benefits of being on hormonal birth control, which are for many women far more extensive than preventing pregnancy”, well, that would be much higher communication skills and awareness on the topic than you’ve demonstrated here.

(Emphasis on the “because of their long term health” reasoning, because asking them to change because of exterior impacts can make sense)

Isn’t any “request” an input only? As opposed to a “command”.

It very much depends on context where request end and coersion starts. I'd be uncomfortable handing control over contraception use over to someone I've known for not so long. Just like a lot of guys use condoms because they don't trust the word of a women when she's saying she's on contraceptives.

In places like the US where women’s reproductive rights are highly contested, many women don’t take well to men making unsolicited requests about their birth control decisions. Perhaps this isn’t the case everywhere, but this site has a very US-heavy readership so it seems reasonable to have that context be the default.

The person who started this thread was having a conversation with his girlfriend as part of a committed relationship, which seems way more important context than what you think is "contested in the US"

“Every single girlfriend I had, I asked her to get off contraceptives” is the tone of someone who is not interested in conversation and wants control. Bottom line.

I feel like I am taking crazy pills. How does the word "ask" imply control? They can say no.

When your boss asks you to take a ticket, when a parent asks their son to clean their room, when a cop asks a citizen to identify themselves, you don't think those situations imply control? When a romantic partner asks you to change the drugs you are taking, don't you think there is some implication that their satisfaction with the relationship is contingent on it? Maybe we are getting too into the semantics here but I think it's pretty overbearing to make such a request and position it as anything more than a suggestion.

When a cop "asks," the citizen doesn't get to tell her to fuck off. The control is implied by the role not by the word "ask."

This dude's girlfriends are free to tell him to fuck off (as one did) so there's no actual control.

There's a difference between "control" and "being on the same page about big deal stuff." I don't think my wife would marry me if I was a heavy drug user for example. That's not her controlling my life, it's her having a standard for herself. If we are not on the same page we just don't get married.

Presumably this dude doesn't want to date/marry someone who takes on heavy health risk when other options are available, especially when the nature of his can impact fertility and children. That's a very reasonable stance for him to take in his own life.

A boss, a parent, and a cop have authority over the person they're asking. A romantic partner does not.

Likewise, my friend asking me to stop smoking because they care about my health is different than my boss saying to stop smoking or I'm fired.

A romantic partner should not, but some people believe that they deserve authority over their romantic partners. It would be nice to believe that all relationships are handled healthily, but this is something a surprisingly large number of people struggle with, partly because it's not something that you can take a formal training course on.

Maybe I live in a bubble, but the disagreement tends to be between different regions, not between individuals within a region. So unless the woman is a transplant from a pro reproductive rights region to an anti reproductive rights region, I don’t think the sort of interpersonal conflict you have in mind is likely to occur, where the man is vehemently anti reproductive rights and the woman vehemently pro. At least I believe it happens infrequently enough to not assume it as a default.

Only in societies that are culturally inclined to open and direct communication. In societies where indirect communication is the dominant form, a "request" might be a command, a polite suggestion or an expression of disapproval, or anything in between.

Why does it upset you that GP would be concerned for his GF's health? I also ask my GF's not to take oral contraceptives because of guilt that they're doing damage to their body for me. None have ever responded negatively, and at the end of the day it was a request. All agreed they did not feel great when taking the pills, but continued because of pressure by society/previous partners.

Because it’s likely that you and GP do not understand the risks as well as you think you do. You are likely not a MD, and even if you were, you wouldn’t be the expert on your partner’s body, they are. The lack of humility is the issue.

Now if your partner brings the topic up to you and mentions health issues they’re experiencing then sure, it’s fine to offer your view, but that’s not how it sounds to us reading.

Why are you assuming that these things didn't come up though? In a committed relationship, I'd be really surprised if your partner didn't share their perspective during this conversation.

Also, people don't need perfect information to have good intentions that can help. My friend might point out that I should cut back on my swordfish intake because it's high in mercury. They don't know my body as well as I do, and they're not an MD, but this seems like a totally fine topic to bring up.

You're suggesting that I never bring up something regarding my partner unless they mention it first. What an absurdly unrealistic and sterile view of love you have.

I see your point but I think the parent didn't mean "ask" as in "told", it's obvious (at least to me!) that such decisions are taken by the woman only. I interpret this as, "I take the full responsibility for not making you pregnant. You can relax now and you don't need to increase the risk of getting cancer out of fear of pregnancy."

I wonder if it's not also the comment format, that is not a full retranscription of the discussion they had, that brings this "ask" to an autoritative verb. The discussion may very well have been "I asked her if she wanted to get off the pill", and the parent took a shortcut on writing.

I did this, and I'm now vasectomized, but even without this operation, the deal was always "I think this may be harmful to you, I would suggest to stop taking it, but that's your move. If you're taking it for contraceptive reasons, we can figure out something else". But this makes for a way longer comment, when you are replying quickly to a topic to provide an opinion on a subject.

In relationships, all "asks" are a smidge more than "just an input" that have to be negotiated with diplomacy or you'll probably end up alone a lot

From medicines, to exercise, vaccines, going to GP, having more serious procedures, going to bed on time... contraceptives, condoms, vasectomy, pregnancy... tattoos, piercings... paying bills, mortgage, savings, joint/split accounts... partners will give inputs on everything. There is no overreach. Strange would be if they didn't worry about each other and the family future

You will always have the last say about yourself, but you will also be mad when your partner ignores something you think you're righter

Especially if you end up having children together and cannot handle disagreements on what best for their health and life in general

To be clear: you would never be in any way responsible for problems associated with your partner taking hormonal birth control because it is a choice they make themselves for their own body.

> Instead I took responsibility for making sure she wouldn't get pregnant

You have to understand what a big statement that is. If she does get pregnant there’s only one person guaranteed to have to deal with the consequences of that, and that’s her. Being hesitant to transfer the responsibility to you is very rational, being mad at you over the topic is understandable.

I know your intention is good throughout here but there’s an implication that you know what’s better for their bodies than they do. A better approach (IMO) is to inform them of the risks (which you’re right they may not know) and let them make their own choice.

>it is a choice they make themselves for their own body

But not a choice made in a vacuum. It's a choice made in the context of their relationship.

Not entirely, no. Women take birth control for a number of reasons unrelated to pregnancy:

https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/ss/slideshow-birth-c...

The “context of a relationship” part is when a couple decide to cease birth control in order to have a child together. The OP is talking about still using birth control, just different birth control that he would prefer she use over the alternatives. Ultimately that should be her choice because the end result to him (no pregnancy) is the same.

>Women take birth control for a number of reasons unrelated to pregnancy

Yes, but don't forget about the elephant in the room: There are a lot of women on birth control who wouldn't be if they weren't trying to avoid pregnancy.

>Ultimately that should be her choice.

Were you under the impression that he was physically preventing his girlfriends from taking birth control?

I'm not sure if it counts as "the elephant in the room" when that's the stated purpose of the medication.

The elephant that is the room?

> If she does get pregnant there’s only one person guaranteed to have to deal with the consequences of that, and that’s her.

Don't get that, in most jurisdictions there is an almost guaranteed second one?

No, because even if she chooses to terminate the pregnancy and not tell the other party a thing, she is still guaranteed to have to deal with the consequences of that decision. Or if she miscarries before she even knows she is pregnant, she has to deal with that, it’s not a pleasant experience for anyone. Etc.

You are getting weird hate here. You identified a health risk someone you cared about / loved was taking and strongly encourage them to avoid it (and offered other solutions)

This is exactly what a proper partner does. Obviously you didn't force anyone to do it, but being passionate about such a topic is totally valid.

Your story reminds me of mine though - encouraged female friends to avoid the pretty obvious health risk. And also have two kids now and never before :)

> One of my girlfriends actually got mad

Am surprised only one did.

My wife is doing it with nothing more than an app for 6 years while using some hormone kit before.

I'm quite surprised how well this works but we are in a stable relationship.

With or without plan b it would not be the end of our life's if we would suddenly getting a child.

Not sure how I would see it if I would be 20 and not above 30

>>> This doesn't work for everyone but I'm fairly responsible

chivalrous, even.

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