Curebit’s at it again, stealing more than code this time
venturebeat.com
venturebeat.com
I usually err on the side of not killing stories criticizing startups we'd funded, but if this was about a startup we didn't fund I'd kill it in a second. (Though of course I wouldn't have to, because few would upvote such a story, which means no journalist would bother writing it.) So I'm going to bury it. I'd rather seem like I'm censoring bad news about startups we funded than let Venturebeat fill HN with crap like this.
Also, Venturebeat is far from the worst offender. At least they (ostensibly) have reporters.
I'm not going to say that her having written a decent article a year ago confers a ton of respectability on VentureBeat but it's not all bad.
On those occasions where Venturebeat gets it right, someone will inevitably blog it. The blog posts won't get banned. People will find out about the article. Meanwhile, Venturebeat has that much less incentive to directly troll HN.
I have zero illusions that Venturebeat is going to get banned. The incentives are wrong for Paul Graham. Venturebeat writes more positive stuff about YC companies than negative stuff. But if Graham is serious about Venturebeat trolling the site --- which it clearly does, all the time --- he shouldn't be choosy about pushing back on it.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3167050
How about instead of us unproductively arguing about this, you make your point by telling us about some of the popular sites you have banned for baiting HN. I'd be particularly interested in the existence proof of any site that regularly writes positive things about startups that you've squelched.
That'll give us an idea of what the standard is.
Edit: I accidentally wrote that first sentence more combatively than I meant to.
Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity.
Curebit's follies definitely interest hackers in two ways:
- How far is too far when 'Keeping It Lean'?
- How important is design to startups?
Off-Topic: ... If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
Can't really prove a negative here, but this is certainly the sort of inside baseball that belongs on a startup-focused medium and not on broadcast television.
Edit:
It could be that this is the ballyhooed YC naughtiness [2] at work:
Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not about observing proprieties. That's why I'd use the word naughty rather than evil. They delight in breaking rules, but not rules that matter. This quality may be redundant though; it may be implied by imagination.
The article here does not try to tackle either of those questions.
The fact is that this is an incredibly pertinent tale for startups, especially those launched by these high-profile programmes where the spotlight will be on from day one, and the lessons it brings, along with the negative publicity is extremely important.
Sure, you can bury the story and say that it's the fault of the community (that YC has fostered itself, organically) for taking an interest in a story, that whilst presented as fluff, contains (as far as we can tell from the comments made by all parties) very solid facts that compound those in a current thread of news, but hey, it'll blow over soon.
As you sow so you shall reap, and all that.
People already think HN is a YC propaganda machine, which long time users know isn't true, and this kind of thing just fuels the conspiracy theories.
That said the "tech" relevance of the story isn't that big & I feel bad for Curebit, I read DHH 's post on twitter about it yesterday & although they are making incredible stupid mistakes, one public flame is enough, they're also just trying to start a company.
One of the curebit cofounders here. We spoke with the artist as soon as we got his message and began discussion to get the music licensed on Sunday. (Its possible Jolie O'Dell had some stale news as it was posted monday).
As of an hour ago, we have come to an agreement on acceptable licensing terms with Random Rab for the music we used, and an apology.
https://twitter.com/#!/randomrab/status/164070854433570817
We've been combing through our assets and code to make sure we have all the appropriate licenses (and obtaining/replacing) for any assets we do not. It may take some time to get through everything, but this is our first priority.
Meanwhile, if you'd like to bring anything to our attention, please let us know at support@curebit.com. We'll act on it promptly.
It's not that you stuff up that matters, but how you recover. A tick in my book.
I think the lesson here is to behave with the same integrity and respect for other people's work before funding as you would when you're a big and successful company.
How should GoDaddy be treated?
I'm guessing those people are also against Curebit doing what it's done? Is there a rallying cry of "HTML is easy to steal and therefore it's a market problem and not Curebit's fault since it is so easy"?
I'm not saying it's a 100% parallel, but you see can see it. One one hand we have "IP theft is ok" and on the other "IP thieves! Get them!"
I know the difference is Curebit's potential profit motivations vs. "I'm a movie collector who wouldn't have bought these overpriced DVDs", but the irony is still present given the close timing between the two events.
If you're a comedian, there is a professional artistic courtesy that you do not steal another comedian's joke -- that if you do, then you are "taking credit" for something which you did not produce. It strikes me that this is the same sort of irritation. The corporations who get mad that you've been seeding the Bourne movies on BitTorrent don't pretend to any sort of artistic outrage, and if they did it would be absurd, because you're faceless and not claiming to any sort of artistic innovation. But we're quite clear, I think, on the fact that (a) they're executives, (b) the government gave them a monopoly on copying these films, and (c) they're upset because end-users didn't care about the monopoly and shared anyway.
Given all that, I'm not sure I find the discrepancy particularly ironic. Actually, I think I'd more or less expect it -- if only because developers have clear human faces, while the RIAA's lawyers and executives do not.
People don't care too much about "stealing" IP for your own viewing/listening enjoyment.
They do care if you're stealing it and re-publishing it as part of your own product without the proper permissions.
There's no contradiction here.
The flipside of starting a business under the limelight is the tabloid-like press that you get, which seems to intensify if you're YC, because a lot of people with seriously great hacker cred have basically personally endorsed your company and its people.
This is a good thing; it gives folks the chance to be a business on a hill and display exemplary ethical practices.
It is not okay for any business entity to break copyright law, and if one has found themselves to be in error (people make mistakes) then one must immediately remedy the situation. This applies to all businesses, and YC companies happen to be under the microscope.
So take advantage of the enviable perks of having press and use the limelight as an opportunity to show stellar maturity and ethical behavior!
That said, Curebit seems to have a bit of a problem on their hands. Smoke, meet fire...
This looks terrible because it is terrible.
It's also a case of two points making a line.
And when did I say they should be ignored?
I do feel bad for all the bad news that Curebit is getting for small issues. But I am glad that such issues are being highlighted.
One part of the answer is that the software company and the artist that Curebit stole from are both darlings with strong fandoms.
I know I wouldn't have cared if they'd stolen from Oracle Corporation and The Jonas Brothers.
(edit) Feel free to downvote, but do tell me - do you really think this belongs to the front page of HN? And do you not think this looks even a little bit like a group bashing now?