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Comment by iconosynclast | Hacker News Reader

These are not comparable situations. Ideally everyone should do a good job, sure, but cops are in an entirely different position in terms of power and responsibility. as part of the executive arm of government they are tasked with holding the monopoly on violence and egregious mistakes in doing so are a fundamental violation of basic rights and the peaceful order of society. When they screw up it's not a bad product being delivered, it's trust in society being eroded, lives being destroyed and the door to tyranny being opened just a little further. severe deterrence against misbehavior, loosing a job honestly seeming VERY weak compared to the scale of responsibility at play here, should simply be par for the course in this context.

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True, but how does firing the whole department solve the problems? I don't think just firing the bad apples is a good long term solution. Mainly because these types of mistakes continually happen in multiple departments in multiple counties and countries. Whenever things keep happening over and over again, it is likely the system itself that causes the problems. Perhaps we should look at countries with the lowest police mistakes and emulate them.

I try to solve problems from a systems perspective. For example the common automobile stop and warrantless search allows officers to more easily abuse power and escalate situations quickly as cops no longer required a warrant from a judge. This was by design by the Supreme Court who ruled in 1925 to allow this exception in times of prohibition when an individual ran away from police with alcohol and they didn't have time to go get a warrant. Stop and frisk was an extension of this case law.

As part of the executive arm of government, they are under the responsibility of the government. When they screw up it reflects on the ability of the government to organize, regulate and fund that executive arm, and also the trust that people have put into those politicians.

If people no longer trust that executive arm of government, then hold those in power responsible for it. Start at the top and replace those politicians. An elected politician can only remain in office if they continue to receive support by voters.

Sure, replace the politicians at the top who aren't willing to cull and replace dysfunctional and corrupt members of the police force. And if it's systemic, the entire police force, which is what's being suggested.

Sure politicians should also be held accountable for policy failures but I don't think it absolves the people enacting an injustice from responsibility. "just following orders" is not a valid excuse and "just vote different" is not a valid way to hold people accountable (in all cases). When everything works in the spirit of the law and the output is still bad it makes sense to just vote for different laws/people to make new legislation, sure, but when rights are being violated there need to be harsh consequences.

It is important that those responsible for the police force can not just simply wash themselves clean of the problem by firing the lowest level employees. I do not disagree that individuals need to be held responsible for their own actions, through most blames should lie on those who hold power to create real change in the organization. As an generalization, a good model is one where blames travels upward and praise travel downward.

Just voting differently is naturally not the only way a government can be held responsible. Political assigned jobs is a job description based on trust, and there should be mechanism to remove individuals who do not fulfill that trust. Governments should also be liable to their citizens, so when injustice occurs people should have the option to demand compensation from the government. This in turn put pressure on politicians to avoid injustice caused by the police.

A police force that protects citizens rights should be viewed as an asset to local government, and the opposite should be a harsh liability that local governments can feel.

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