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Comment by infoseek12 | Hacker News Reader

In terms of product innovation, OpenAI is now like Google and Google is now like Xerox.

The analogy is even more apt when you think that most of the things Apple and Microsoft became big with in the 90's - like mouses and GUIs - were invented as Xerox but they failed to monetize, just like the basis for GTP came from Google and they failed to monetize (externally).

I don't think Google is as Xerox- or IBM-ified yet though, they might still bounce back with AI products.

Please anyone willing to answer as if you might be speaking to a golden retriever:

How important is a "lead" in this space?

I have been comparing ChatGPT and Bard a lot the last two days because this is all very fascinating, and from my datapoint-of-one perspective, it feels like ChatGPT is way, way ahead.

Then I start to wonder is this because ChatGPT captivated our attention so much the last few months that they've been able to inherently improve the product faster, and thus the flywheel starts spinning rapidly giving them even more of an advantage as more people use the service, giving it more to train off of?

I.e., does Bard (and any forthcoming competitors) fall way behind because they lost the slightest head start that then rapidly spirals into a competitive advantage?

Depends on the height of the S-curve — that is, how long the exponential uptrend continues. If not long, then they will converge quickly. But if it continues for a long time, then always being a few years behind then might as well give up. Still, following a different path might lead to a bigger step change and catch up.

I would worry more for Apple than for Google.

Bard opened to a US-only audience. For being the engine in applications that might propel an LLM ahead of the others, I fail to see that this would be advantageous for opening markets and greeting new customers.

As an example [of the contrary], I noticed Swedish Klarna among the partners that OpenAI revealed when announcing their plug-in API today.

Bard launched in the UK too

Bard speaks only English + is very limited, so that explains much why it's not widely deployed worldwide.

You might be right, though there is a vast difference between not supporting a language and actively barring access from different countries.

Imo there is less of a flywheel than it might seem. It's not like google search where a click of the 7th result is concrete feedback. ChatGPT doesn't get concrete feedback (it's not none), and the amount of text available for training is crazy high.

Additionally, the model doesn't learn from experience. If you use GPT-4 for 10 years, it will behave the same in the 10th year as the first. It's not getting better as you use it. OpenAI could improve their models based on the feedback they get but I believe they claim they aren't doing this, and I doubt they'd lie about that.

Sounds like you don't ever submit feedback. It's been there from day one and asks you to write why you didn't like the response. It would not shock me if they use gpt itself to read the feedback and provide a corrected response for the next versions training data. They could also log anytime some provides negative sentiment in the chat session for training signal.

Hence the "it's not none" part of the comment. There is nuance...

I don't think OpenAI's lead is holding Google back. Companies are held back by their own mentalities, and newer companies have fewer restrictions.

As an example, Google supposedly had better text-to-image models than DALL-E/Midjourney/etc, but didn't release them because they "reinforced harmful stereotypes".

It's also probably holding back on LLM because it doesn't want to harm its search cash cow, just like Kodak didn't want to hurt its film cash cow by developing digital cameras (which it invented).

Of course, now it is forced to productize LLMs (Kodak was actually the largest manufacturer of digital cameras (by unit number) when it went bankrupt, but that didn't help it).

Do you have a source for that bit about the woke "reinforced harmful stereotypes"?

Curious, as I've seen a few statements along the same lines, but nothing concrete yet. Very keen to know more.

https://imagen.research.google/ “Limitations and societal impact”

I think large companies have a huge disadvantage in this area due to reputational risk that the startups don't have to really worry about to the same extent.

Wow, as somebody who remembers Xerox's lethargy even in the 80s and 90s, that's both an incredibly apt comparison and shockingly accurate.

Google is a large conglomerate (Alphabet). So a big heterogeneous federation.

If they managed this well, it'd could be much more long-lived than other corporations.

Google itself could loose steam but other companies, e.g. DeepMind, could fill in the void.

However, the founders seem not to care.

Although DeepMind made and improved AlphaGo, they did not produce ChatGPT. Just like Apple went to Xerox and saw the potential of innovations that Xerox was neglecting.

Almost every time i hear google now, i think of the book Dealers of Lightning and how there was an amazing product, but management just could not execute.

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