TikTok Congress Hearing
nytimes.com
nytimes.com
One scenario I can see is that the US will ban TikTok while the EU will implement much stricter privacy rules which would need to be adhered by TikTok and all the other (Instagram, Facebook etc). Effectively making the whole reason the US is going to ban TikTok moot.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/03/30/faceboo...
EDIT: Spelling
American politicians who want to copy Chinese policies to retaliate for unfair treatment of American companies would be retaliating against American citizens for unfairly having First Amendment rights when Chinese citizens don't.
> Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
How many Chinese human rights activists use or used Hotmail?
Google and Facebook both used to operate in China. The government of China told them to start censoring certain content. US lawmakers did not like this and warned the companies not to comply with Chinese rules. So the companies left China to keep the US side happy.
So to be clear, there was active pressure from the highest levels of US government for American companies not to build products in China that could be used for censorship.
The revisionist history is wild.
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/13/world/asia/13beijing.html
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch...
See this is one of the advantages of having an open society. Google is not censored in the US and we can look up the history of Google being forced out of China.
> Google said the cyber attack originated from China and that its intellectual property was stolen, but that evidence suggested a primary goal was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists.
- It's to protect US tech giants
- It's Sinophobic
- Privacy laws for all tech would be preferable
These all deflect from the reason there is a hearing today: Concerns regarding the handling of US user data by a large company with ties to the Chinese communist government.
I thought we don't want a great firewall like China because you know "freedom", yet we are running down this path.
When I go to a bank here in Switzerland as a Swiss and ask to open a bank account I am asked if I have an US Citizenship. I am not asked if I have a Russian or Chinese or any other Citizenship. Why is this? Because the US has forced regulations down Switzerland throat with threats of preventing Swiss banks from using the USD.
In many other European countries there are US soldiers stationed. How many French or British military bases are there in the US?
Imagine if TikTok were owned by Russia and videos that are pro Ukraine being throttled.
Given China's history of hacking Gmail accounts of folks in the US, this is probable.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/jan/12/google-ch...
If it was actually about privacy or whatever, they would simply ban the privacy-violating practices, not the app itself.
Let's say TikTok becomes a fully-fledged US company.
Is that actually something under the US government's control? I mean...will the US government actually do anything substantive to reign in the privacy violations of an American company?
Yeah, right...
In other words, it's less a user privacy issue and more a national security issue.
Because that isn't remotely the case. A backdoor exists for everyone, or it doesn't exist.
Except once again, PRC doesn't ban US services, they force them to comply with PRC laws that has onerous moderation overheads. And these services refused back when SV was riding high on free speech, aka low cost moderation.
IMO US wants to ban Tik Tok because they can't implement broad content/privacy rules like in PRC. Whether due to tech lobbying, because it's politically difficult, or it's politically inconvenient - US platforms implementing elevated standards will ripple expectations and costs across global markets where they operate.
Also keep in mind that even PRC hasn't tried to force of sale US companies due to national security. Require joint ventures / ramp up costs, sure. With Oracle deal out, TikTok can't even operate in US the same way iCloud can operate in PRC.
Though it's not as official as in China, major American social networks are increasingly heavily moderated, and increasingly do work closely with govt and close-to-government entities to enact desired moderation (censorship, if you prefer) policies.
They do this "voluntarily", but it's not clear they could actually decline w/o suffering consequences.
This is perhaps somewhat less true at Twitter post-Elon aquisition. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
The US passing legislation that would protect user data likely won't happen for a long time. The US banning tiktok seems like it may happen soon. I think most people agree the former is more ideal, but wouldn't the latter also be a good thing?
For what it's worth, I really hate most social media and the general landscape of "free" products/services that make their money by selling your data, and I do hope one day we have laws that strictly regulate who can sell what, or just ban the practice entirely. But that includes tiktok, so it being banned would be a good thing in my book.
[1] https://www.vox.com/recode/23453786/tiktok-bytedance-cfius-d...
Maybe it was complete chance, or maybe it wasn't. It made me consider the potential danger of a direct propaganda spigot from the Chinese government to today's youth.
What does everyone here think will happen on TikTok when the PRC invades Taiwan? TikTok will be a flood of "don't get involved", "The West caused this", and other PRC state propaganda immediately.
In terms of showing the live feed initially, there is obviously a lot of interest and anger on Tiktok about the potential ban, thus broadening the reach of that content.
ETA: Here’s one article I was able to find about it buried under more recent ones. I’m not sure how long it was removed for, but I do remember checking the Apple App Store at the time and not being able to find it, though it still worked if already installed.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/trump-tikt...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump%E2%80%93TikTok_co...
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/us-start-blocking-tik...
It would be a mortal wound, remaining users would bleed off, and the small contingent that remains would hold much less overall influence.
- Make sure the FCC removes blacklisted apps from app stores.
- Require ISPs to block access to the sites of those sanctioned companies.
- Make foreign employees of sanctioned companies ineligible for most visas.
- Require U.S. national employees and others affiliated with it to register as foreign agents.
bytedance will just shut tiktok down if the US "forces" them to sell. it will simply disappear one day -- maybe with a nice little note explaining the situation, maybe not. the domestic US political ramifications of this are unknown, because we've never been in this kind of situation before - half the country uses this thing, across the entire socio-political demographic spectrum.
if the ccp has ultimate control as so many people say, on what planet do they sell this market leading company and platform to a US buyer? one that plainly and openly calls china the enemy. the US can not split the political difference between an outright ban and permitting them to operate. it's a binary outcome. even entertaining the idea that the US would just simply take over this asset is pure, unadulterated fantasy. in fact it is delusional.
i mean is anyone actually thinking logically about this?
My working hypothesis is that some of the people considering this ban are thinking about it logically but with the erroneous idea that China is the China of 40 years ago and they the United States is the United States of 40 years ago.
Unfortunately, this America no longer exists.
The fact that social media (including TikTok) is actively designed for addiction and is currently causing a generation-wide mental health crisis?
Not a problem.
The fact that all of those apps have been collecting and trading personal data for more than a decade by now?
Not a problem.
The fact that we know of Facebook's experiments on mood manipulation and we had several scandals about social networks successfully manipulating political opinion?
Not a fucking problem.
Only when there is risk that all the data gathering, manipulation and exploitation might be done by a foreign state, then social media suddenly becomes a matter of national security.
Are you saying the previous issues you mentioned are also national security issues?
One can be absolute incompetent and clueless in everything but as long as they are good at being performative and playing politics. They can reach top level of organization, have all the power and money without much of the responsibility.
Even if one doesn't like politics, knowing how to read people and identifying politics in play is crucial as an insurance in career.
It's bleak, but that's the way human works.
US companies openly abusing their access to American citizens' data? I'm sure fining them like 0.1% of their profits will do the trick! No, we can't add more regulations to the industry! Haven't you read Atlas Shrugged?
Chinese company having access to American citizens' data? We need to do something about this ASAP! Maybe we can make them an American company!
It’s exactly what national intelligence exists for.
But they are not really concerned with any other abuses. Is it really the category of abuse that matters here, and not the actor?
Color me unconvinced.
The CCP has really been stepping up its game and putting pressure on in a bad way lately.
The South China Sea, Taiwan, Russian interaction… lots of geopolitical reasons for the two governments to be unfriendly at the moment.
Do you really think the CCP is going to run an effective pro-Russia/China or anti-Taiwan propaganda campaign? In the US? An effective one?
I'm still not convinced that risk is even remotely more concerning than what Facebook or the NSA are doing.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2022/12/22/tik...