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Comment by yawnr | Hacker News Reader

So — housing?

> There is an expectation of profits from the investment

Not everyone cares to 1) sell their house 2) at a profit. Some people just want to live in it and even die in it.

Not everyone cares to 1) sell their Bitcoin 2) at a profit. Some people just want to live long enough until there are no other forms of money left.

But their kids probably will. Is a generational investment not a security? I’m not even trying to be cute. Everyone is competing with corporations for single family housing for a reason now.

Housing isn’t an investment in a common enterprise.

False. If your local governing agency (whether private or public) fails to maintain the local parks, schools, and roads, the value of your house will fall. Houses are securities according to the Howey test.

No they aren’t.

“The respondent companies are offering something more than fee simple interests in land…they are offering an opportunity to contribute money and to share in the profits of a large citrus fruit enterprise.”

https://recaldelaw.com/do-security-regulations-cover-real-es...

Yes, the courts don’t support the SEC interpretation of the Howey test, and the SEC has repeatedly lost in court. Your point is?

My point was 3 words. Which one do you not understand?

Something can both pass the Howey test and be considered a security by the SEC, but simultaneously fail to be a security in court.

By not passing the Howey test. Which they don’t, according to the only people whose opinion matters.

The SEC doesn’t get a vote.

Yes, so the SEC guidance is irrelevant, and is just fear mongering to get people to pay fines they don’t actually need to pay.

That is correct.

My HOA would argue otherwise. It exists specifically to prevent housing prices from falling due to certain local factors.

- Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party

Couldn't that apply to just about anything the moment anyone anywhere says "Buying X is a good investment!" so long as it's possible that the promotion resulted in X selling at a higher price?

A broker?

If a Real Estate Investment Truest (REIT), then yes.

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