Apple further cracks down on remote work by tracking employee attendance badges | Hacker News Reader

Apple further cracks down on remote work by tracking employee attendance badges

9to5mac.com

91 pointswootland44 comments

The only thing software engineers like more than being tracked is having their attendance tallied. Maybe they can use a punch card system to ensure nobody drinks more than their fair share of the coffee or spends too long in the bathroom etc.

I like the complaints here. On the one hand, tracking every website visit and mouse click is good because it improves revenue due to better targeting of ads; but when a company does even less - just seeing if you show up - to get a return on an assent (office space) its all "yes they deserved to die and I hope they burn in hell!"

That's a false dichotomy. You can be pro-worker's rights and anti-surveillance capitalism. It's right to fight against execs forcing workers back into the office/most expensive real-estate market in the world. I'm totally with you on calling out companies that spy on their users as well though!

It's only a false dichotomy if you lack principles.

In what way? I'm certainly angry about both. The false dichotomy is to claim that everyone who is upset about Apple's abuse of power is not upset about surveillance capitalism. No one has argued for that.

Apple has a stronger stance on privacy than Google, Meta or the thousands of no-name companies working on glorified ad-tech.

I think the comment was speaking in broad brushes about the general feeling on HN with RTO. Apple employees have a leg to stand on with regards to privacy, and you're correct there is no false dichotomy in Apple's case, but they're the exception not the rule. The comment is about everyone else.

> Apple has a stronger stance on privacy than Google, Meta or the thousands of no-name companies working on glorified ad-tech.

I don't trust anyone (a prudent stance to take). There is no moral high ground with any of these companies. Apple uses child labor to manufacture disposable eco-disasters that fit in your pocket.

Apple also has an ad business, they will definitely spy on you (just like they're spying on their employees). In no way is that a comment on Google, Meta or any of the others. They should also be taken to task. There's no reason to defend Apple on this though.

I forgot Apple had an ad business -- I guess Apple isn't in a better position than Google or Meta on privacy.

Lol treating their employees like high schoolers now? I'd be surprised if this actually gets implemented, idk if anyone who have any kind of job mobility would stand for it

I like working in office so I’d be indifferent. Perhaps Apple wants to develop their in office culture again and let the people who want to remote work move on.

That is a false dichotomy. I love working in the office and also really like working from home (or elsewhere, but preferably from home.) It's almost as if there's a third way here; let's just for argument's sake refer to it as a hybrid solution. Wonder if someone has attempted it?

Maybe people in this camp are welcome to move on too?

It's not a false dichotomy. You can't have an office work culture if most people choose not to go to the office.

Didn't I just talk about the hybrid alternative as the third leg of the actual dichotomy? You might still have the opinion that the office culture won't be the same and maybe not as good, and you're entitled to that. I would have to think about what I think about office cultures to have an opinion on it.

The either/ or dichotomy is still false, however.

They are the only company that has not done layoffs. This is their way of doing layoffs without paying severance. Other companies are doing this as well including mine. I hope they all crash and burn when the job market recovers. Apple's AI talent will leave in droves to startups.

Alienating your employees who have the most job mobility isn’t back door layoffs. If they had excess staff like others, which by all accounts they didn’t hire at the same rates, they would have done layoffs by now too. This is just them gambling that their preferred management dictate won’t cause too much attrition.

Agree. This is a stupid way to get rid of your best people.

A lot of assumptions there:

1. Software engineers have job mobility.

2. Software engineers who work from home are the best people.

The best people have job mobility, and some or many of them like to work from home.

Absolutely not true if you consider the fact that many of the smartest are on H1B visas.

H1Bs are royally screwed.

You do what you are told and keep your head down.

Wouldn't they be on O-1 visas. Still, I get your point.

Apple has deep pockets though, startups could struggle to compete with that

If Apple employs anyone working on “AI”, I would not describe them as having any talent.

At least not based on Siri’s usefulness.

Looks like that they are as bad and possessive with their employees as they are with their customers!

I would argue that if you work for a company like Apple you're basically doing it wrong by not leveraging the campus amenities.

It's free real estate, free gym, free lunch, and the list goes on. I imagine Apple Park is a nicer place to exist than most residential homes.

I think that most Apple employees knew what they signed up for when they chose that culture.

IIRC lunches at Apple are subsidized but not free

Nah they're just work cafeterias with pretty normal work cafeteria prices, similar to MS cafeterias. The free food == free employee labour model didn't really start in tech until google popularized it and aggressively marketed it (and similar "free" perks to encourage people to stay in the office w/o being paid more).

Lunches at Apple may be subsidized, but they are relatively expensive.

Apple isn't google - there aren't free amenities. Apple has never had the google "it's your home away from home" model.

> I would argue that if you work for a company like Apple you're basically doing it wrong by not leveraging the campus amenities.

The last thing that I want to do on my off time is hang out at work. It doesn't matter how nice the amenities are -- I have a life to lead.

If your office subsidizes your meals, gives you square footage to work (instead of having a home office), and cuts out the need for a gym membership, that is non-zero value.

Depends on where you live. That may not be enough to subsidize your time and money with a commute to get there and back... or cost savings from not needing childcare or petcare

What's next, drug tests?

Drug tests are not uncommon in U.S. hiring. I had to take one once before taking a position.

> Drug tests are not uncommon in U.S. hiring. I had to take one once before taking a position.

It's very uncommon in the tech industry, even more so in Silicon Valley.

Anecdotally, would you say it’s even opposite - companies and investors prefer drug takers?

No, where did you get this silly idea?

It probably refers to something like "people who party hard or take drugs on social occasions are disproportionally rewarded". I have definitely seen some of that.

It is not conscious decision to pick alcoholics or drug takers. It just so happen that if you are not present at the party or keep it sober, they feel less good about you.

stimulants like adderall are popular at startups (FANGG too id guess) so hes probably referring to that.

Let's start a software company that has free coffee and joints everywhere with PlayStations and couches (I would settle for a lanparty room that only has StarCraft and quake 3 installed). Also a free lunch buffet catered by panda express and whatever is this week's favorite cookie company startup. What does our software do? Hey man what's with all the questions.

Are you equating objecting to drug testing with being drug users?

Peak HN

Apple already discovered that you can't drug test the software people...

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