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Comment by huxley | Hacker News Reader

You had me up until "No one is going to change their manufacturing practices as long as a company like Apple is reaping in some of the largest profits in recorded history using Foxconn style labor as a foundation."

You are doing the exact same thing that you accused MG Siegler of doing, you're minimizing an abuse of workers.

I like Apple gear a lot and I'm enough of a fan to hate seeing them getting attacked, but I agree that they need to step up and force Foxconn and their other suppliers to provide as safe working conditions and fair employment as they would if they were in Cupertino.

However, if Apple fails to, that doesn't give Samsung, Dell or any other manufacturers a free pass to screw Chinese workers.

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Of course it doesn't give the other manufactures a free pass... I'm simply saying that companies will more often than not try to emulate Apple's practices.

Apple is in the best position of any company to fix these problems. So in that respect, applying pressure at the top of the corporate food chain isn't an unreasonable thing to do.

There is NOTHING a foreign-owned company can do to change something that is so fundamental to China's culture and politics. This is the responsibility of Foxconn and the Chinese Government.

This is the norm in China because the Chinese government itself encourages, supports and even demands this kind of labor conditions.

You have to crush some grapes to make some wine?

  Mr Otis regrets that his company 
     profits from using sweatshops
  But to trade with these small countries 
     youve got to afford the pay offs
  Its not HIM exploiting them, its their own governments, 
     running their countries on bribes.
  And besides, he pays £10 a month to charity 
     and that will apparently save 5 lives.

http://www.myspace.com/scroobiuspip/blog/161467332

Heard here @15:15: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01b8zvx/Poetry_Please_...

Foxconn is exploiting its workers. not Apple.

You surely can't be that naive. There are numerous things a foreign company can do, such as leaving the country entirely. Threaten to withdraw unless China and Foxconn begin to take these issues more seriously. At $13 billion a quarter in profit and $100 billion in cash, it's not like Apple doesn't have a choice as to where their products are made.

Another idea is to offer financial incentives for factories that meet strict safety requirements. Offer them better terms, longer contracts, etc.

YOU surely can't be this naive.

oldstrangers, beatle, who you are debating with, seems to be a PR rep for Apple, he comes into every thread that mentions Apple and advances the positives and deflects the negatives. He doesn't respond to most other threads, it's Apple ones he goes for specifically. This sort of single-topic commenter doesn't match the usage pattern of real people, they are always working for someone.

If apple is paying Foxconn, then they are encouraging and supporting those labor conditions. If they set deadlines for delivering the product, they are also demanding those conditions.

> This is the norm in China because the Chinese government itself encourages, supports and even demands this kind of labor conditions.

No it's not the norm, and the government doesn't encourage and definitely doesn't demand these conditions.

It does support them, but in an apathetic "how the hell do we even try to stop this" kind of way. Not a "Yeah I want those workers to suffer" kind of way.

The chinese govt is not a 2 dimensional evil monster that The West paint it to be. It is like most govts with a left and right wing, and (shock-horror) even debate! The difference between Mao Zedong, Chou Enlai, and Deng XiaoPing is evidence of this segregation.

The Chinese government want low wages to keep factories from leaving China. They don't want to lose factories to Bangladesh, Brazil, Philippines, Vietnam or India.

If you read through the comments on this thread, it becomes apparent that posters "already know everything about China",its government, and its people. Reading statements contending that it is a developed country make that clear. That said, I appreciate that you still braved the waters and tried to correct some of these misconceptions.

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