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Comment by steponlego | Hacker News Reader

What the heck is the market for this stuff? I'm repulsed by it, and I've asked around. None of the people I know who eat meat are even vaguely interested in this either. I mean sure a cow gets slaughtered but the alternative being presented, with vats of barnyard-alien-maniamal (yes the lab grown franken-meat industry has gleefully stated culturing human meat is a goal) hybrids twitching and gibbering in their nutrient-piss fluid goo...

It's just dehumanizing. Maybe that's the point of this industry.

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> I'm repulsed by it

Many people are repulsed by factory farming and go vegetarian or vegan, but would welcome meat flavors and textures that don't come at the cost of animal misery.

> and I've asked around

Considering the tone of the rest of your comment, I'm doubtful the question you asked of your friends was stated in a neutral way that wasn't just broadcasting your disgust at the idea.

"Hey Tom, instead of having a steak, would you rather eat twitching, gibbering barnyard-alien-maniamal hybrids grown in vats of nutrient-piss fluid goo?"

> lab grown franken-meat industry has gleefully stated culturing human meat is a goal

For sure there are people looking to grow skin and other organs for medical reasons, but I'd really like to see a reference to someone (much less the entire "franken-meat industry") claiming to grow human cells for consumption.

Most people don’t go vegan or vegetarian. It’s really a very tiny segment of the population, partially driven by ESG and our corporate overlords who want us to own nothing. And partly driven by Indian tech bros, they’re very keen on stopping me from getting my daily beef ration.

> Most people don’t go vegan or vegetarian. It’s really a very tiny segment of the population

And that implies there is no market how exactly? There's plenty of market for things that the majority isn't interested in. You seem to have an axe to grind.

Not "no" market, but it's a very very small market. A fraction of a percent of the public. And it's shrinking, as people switch away from veganism because of health problems. All three of my friends who were vegans 10 years back eat eggs and cheese again now.

> I'm repulsed by it

Can I ask why? Why is a bunch of cells grown in a clean-room environment more disgusting than a similar bunch harvested from free-range chicken potentially exposed to vastly more diseases?

I don't mean to be facetious, really, I don't. I'm neither vegetarian nor vegan, and am not pursuing any kind of agenda with this line of questioning. I just don't understand where the feeling of disgust comes from.

I’m not sure if this is the previous poster’s reason, but (given the implication that the poster is a vegetarian) it my simply be that many vegetarians are put off by the taste and texture of meat, whether it be real, cultured or fake (via textured proteins, etc.).

But I think it’s pretty silly to think that vegetarians are the target market for fake or cultured meat. Surely not.

If you’ve been vegetarian for a long time (life-long or for decades), then the distinctive texture of many meat products can be very off-putting. It’s not like anything you find in vegetable dishes (which is why fake and cultured meat products exist!), and if you’re not used to it, it can trigger you to gag as your brain sends signals that “this isn’t food as I know it”.

This isn’t usually a problem. If you’re a vegetarian, you don’t have any requirement to eat meat. Except some restaurants are now excitedly adopting fake (vegetable protein-based) meats as a “vegetarian” option. It must be convenient as they don’t have to invent new vegetable-centric dishes, but many vegetarians just can’t manage to eat them even if they try. I’ve been to a couple of work dinners lately where the vegetarian option was a fake (TVP-based) meat, and had to just eat the side salad because the main dish triggered my gag reflex.

I’m a life-long vegetarian and kind of wish I could eat meat, it would make life simpler. But I just can’t bring myself to chew or swallow it without plenty of water to wash it down. That said, I’m all for cultured meats as an option for meat-eaters. Go for it.

> I’m a life-long vegetarian and kind of wish I could eat meat, it would make life simpler. But I just can’t bring myself to chew or swallow it without plenty of water to wash it down.

If you really want to, and I'm not sure if you do, you probably need to add meat slowly. It would work best if you often eat with someone who eats meat, but add a pea sized bit of meat to one meal a day for a week, then two pea sized bits, then four, etc. Kind of hard to do if it's only you / only vegetarians eating, because meat doesn't tend to come in appropriate sizes to do that with. Prefer tiny pieces mixed into dishes where you take larger bites of many things --- a burrito is a great place hide things.

Because it's never the same thing. People want the authentic real thing, not lab grown monstrosities created for the masses so they can be "ethical" while millionaires can do whatever they want.

You might as well ask why have sex when you can just buy a fleshlight/dildo. (Don't you know how many diseases you're exposed to?)

Millionaires also commit terrible crimes and depraved actions, I guess that should give us the green light to do that in kind

The cell lines are literally cancerous, for one. You can look that up. But it just feels wrong, without trying to be too offensive it’s the same reason I am repelled by transgendered and heavily tatted people. Part of my brain switches into fight or flight mode and screeches DANGER at me.

I'm sure cancerous cell lines exist, but could you show that those are used in cultured meats?

Also, did you mean cancerous or carcinogenic? Only the latter therm is about the consequences of eating the thing in question.

I invite you to show yourself how these cell lines, which must be immortal to be cultured, come to be. It should be educational. Perhaps I expect too much but in high school, freshman year, we learned about this even in my small town. I look forward to the next genuine interaction.

I'm taking up your offer: please show me. It's clear that you have enough knowledge about it to support your argument, and that I don't even know where to look.

The journey of personal growth begins within. Introductory high school level biology classes are where I learned that immortal cell lines are what causes cancer. And if you read their material on the GOOD Meat site you'll see they admit it without admitting it - the product is "sterilized" and "washed," you don't have to do this with actual meat.

But please, I invite you to research this for yourself. You'll be stunned.

Only immortal cell lines that are integrated with your body are cancer.

Given that you didn't cite any sources, I conclude that your fears stem from believing scary-sounding half-truths.

Three cents have been added to your bank account.

It's quite common to feel afraid of the new: it's an essential survival mechanism. However, just because we get that feeling initially, doesn't mean we should always trust it over a lived experience. People for all time have experienced this feeling when doing something new: riding a bike, driving in a car, and first week of kindergarten. What makes us the hyper adaptable omnivores we are is our ability to become desensitized via repeated exposure to things that aren't real threats.

And of course, sometimes we've gotten complacent and made an error, like lead in gasoline. But that's why we study everything to try to ensure we are improving.

That response might add unnecessary stress and complication in your life. I suggest reading or engaging with _why_ you feel this way, beyond the initial reaction. Imagine I felt unduly disgusted by you everytime I interacted with you. Not only is it not prosocial, that kind of overhead leads to bad places (having formerly held on to those beliefs myself).

It's actually worked out fine so far.

It's even worse. Most lab grown stuff has to use this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_bovine_serum

As a vegetarian, I would say - continue to eat the animals than putting the animals through the dystopian hell that produces animal based nutrient solutions. I would also bet that most of the people looking forward for lab grown meat would be repulsed by what exactly they are eating if they understand the production process

Man, this is horrifying. I was looking forward to cultured meat but I never bothered to check what they actually do. Guess I'll die a vegetarian, or even vegan

> ...hybrids twitching and gibbering in their nutrient-piss fluid goo.

Is this actually what's going on? And if there is any twitching, is there any brain involved, or is it external electrical stimulation used to develop the muscle tissue that will later be harvested?

> None of the people I know who eat meat are even vaguely interested in this either.

If you present it to them like you're presenting it here, and they don't bother to do any additional research, then it's no wonder why they're disinterested.

Everything about the meat industry from farm to table is dehumanizing.

Factory farming is infinitely more repulsive. Lots of us actually care about other living things

Are you being intellectually honest when you imply that the only options are prison sheds for the poor animals, and lab grown abominations? No, you’re arguing like a child. This wouldn’t even work on a child, I don’t know why you think it would work on me.

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