Reasons Not to Use Google (2015)
stallman.org
stallman.org
For example, He spends a lot of time talking about the You Tube JavaScript code, while not talking about the You Tube server code. Which seems backwards to me. It seems to me that the JavaScript part, while not licensed, is closer to free software (you can read it etc) than the server side.
The tracking of information, privacy issues and so on seem unrelated to Free Software and are just a laundry list of bad corporate behaviour, which aren't a secret (and can be easily sumarized.)
Frankly there are so many reasons to avoid Google that have nothing to do with the notion of Free Software, that the JavaScript license part is irrelevant. It's like saying that smoking kills you, and the packaging also sux.
So I guess his page covers all the bases, but if bad corporate behaviour is the new Stallman Standard, then I guess pretty much any company is off limits.
That's exactly it. The move to cloud / saas is very convenient as a way to alienate software users from the software. You can use it, but only in pre-approved ways. You can use it but only until the software gets cancelled (when that happens nobody else can use anymore, instantly). You can use it but don't ever think about modifying it for your needs.
Actually Stallman himself talks about this (like rebranding saas as "service as a software substitute" [0] rather than "software as a service") and that's really the crucial point, all the rest follows from Google's utter control of the software.
[0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
Whole article could be reduced to "see SaaS".
Being deployed server-side doesn’t usually count.
If you keep it to yourself, even extreme copyleft licenses don’t require you to share changes.
I think Stallman has a (reasonable) problem with any SaaS that isn't AGPL. (and even with AGPL, code without data is meaningless).
>>If you keep it to yourself, even extreme copyleft licenses don’t require you to share changes.
Assuming it's public, like YouTube, AGPL requires you to publish server-side code.
> Being deployed server-side doesn’t usually count.
It's only an issue if the software has users. Whether those users interact with the software locally or through a remote server makes isn't important for him.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s... (written by him)
Maybe. I see a list of "what's bad about <company name>" on the front page of stallman.org, but I have yet to find a "what's good about <company name>" page.
Although this is not necessarily specific to Stallman, there seemed to be an order of magnitude more people complaining about companies than endorsing them. Stallman at least has some positive restaurant reviews.
The license prohibited vendors from forking android and an NDA prohibited the release of the licensing terms.
Anything else they did, I knew they were doing it; but gmail was just too damned convenient.
>Google cuts off accounts for users that resell Pixel phones [0]. They lose access to all of their mail and documents stored in Google servers under that account.
>It should be illegal to put any "terms of service" on a physical product. It should also be illegal to close an account on a service without letting the user download whatever was stored there.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/17/google-su...
edit: Oh I misread, I thought you disagreed with him, sorry.
The Google customers had all bought the phones from the company’s Project Fi
mobile carrier, and had them shipped directly to a reseller in New Hampshire,
a US state with no sales tax. In return, the reseller split the profit with the customers.
Such an arrangement is against Google’s terms of service, which state that customers
“may only purchase Devices for your personal use [and] may not commercially resell any Device”.
From what I gather, a bunch of users bought heavily-subsidized phones intended for Google-Fi customers, shipped them to a commercial reseller who sold them at regular prices, then split the profit of a couple hundred bucks per phone. Doesn't sound very savory to me.I also would easily believe these users probably didn't just buy a phone, and likely were using their personal Gmail account as a defacto business account - Pixel Arbitrage, as it were. In that light, banning the account outright makes some sense, even if it feels heavy-handed.
I think most Google account owners would agree with the above sentiment.
As you said, the issue is not that Google claimed some sort of ongoing right to block resale of the phone in the ToS, but simply that it refused to sell the phone to resellers to begin with. That's not attaching a ToS to a physical product, but just choosing who to take orders from.
> Such an arrangement is against Google’s terms of service, which state that customers “may only purchase Devices for your personal use [and] may not commercially resell any Device”
While you could certainly argue that's a ToS for the use of the store (not for the product itself), it's up to Google to identify resellers and not sell to them. If they fail to identify a customer as a reseller -- or hell, someone buys the phone and only later on decides to commercially resell it, or to sell it to a commercial reseller -- tough luck. That's just the first-sale doctrine at work.
Google taking punitive action against people who get away with this may not literally be "enforcing terms of service on a physical product", but it's muddy enough that I don't think the distinction matters. (Regardless, I think it's a big stretch to connect the ToS for store purchases to an entire Google account.) In any case, it's an incredibly scummy thing to do.
If I buy something it's mine and I can do what I want with it.
It's like trying to devise a Will that controls what happens to one's estate after it is distributed to the inheritors. You're dead, and your stuff then belongs to other people.
> may not commercially resell any Device”. (Emphasis mine)
The commercially reselling is probably in reference to buying a product for the sole purpose of reselling that product[0]. Of course, I'm no lawyer so maybe I'm completely misinterpreting that.
[0]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/uscode.php?width=840...
You can actually do that, although it is limited somewhat by the rule against perpetuities (RAP). The classic statement of the RAP is that no interest is good unless it must vest, if at all, not later that 21 years after some life in being at the creation of the interest.
For example, suppose you have three children and you own a small farm but do not live on it. You've got an arrangement with Farmer Bob that lets him and his family live on the farm and run it, and you get 20% of the profits.
In your will you could leave the farm to Bob for the rest of his life and then to your children and that would be fine. Bob's interest, if it vests, does so when you die, and that's within 21 years of your life and you were alive when the interest was created, so no RAP violation. You childrens' interests, if they vest, do so when Bob dies, which is within 21 years of Bob's life, and Bob is alive now so again RAP is satisfied.
So when you die the farm goes to Bob. When Bob dies it goes to your children (or if they are dead then it goes to whoever inherited their interest). (For those wondering what happens if Bob tries to sell the farm after he inherits it--he can, but he can only sell what he has which is an interest that terminates when he dies. That interest still terminates when he dies even if at the time someone else owns that interest).
In a majority of US states they have modified the classic common law RAP, replacing the within 21 years of a life now in existence with a flat 90 years. Some states have gone even longer in some circumstances, such as Florida which for trusts upped it to 360 years and then 1000 years. A handful of states have abolished the RAP.
Leave your stuff in a trust when you die and live in one of those states and you can dictate what happens to your estate for generations after you are gone.
I'm not disputing that, just that it's a bad law.
> 1000 years
Absurd law.
Sure, maybe Google bans you for selling a Pixel phone, but that doesn't just ban you from Pixel. You're locked out of your entire business.
Or maybe Google bans you for making algorithmically determined bad comments on YouTube and now you're locked out of your entire business.
I find that entirely unacceptable.
They should really set up boundaries between various services and/or improve the ability to appeal account bans.
I was motivated by this list to stop depending so much on google. But it's harder than it seems. For example, if you purchase a fastmail account, you still need a google account to install the app in your non-google phone, because fastmail only provides the apk files via the google play store. There's so many such "roadblocks" in de-googlification that you inevitably give up at some point.
Both types of anonymous session timed out repeatedly over a period of about three days so I eventually caved and made a throwaway Google account for it. In which case I should have just used the Play store.
PSA: Fairmail is fantastic, IMO, but be aware the settings are a bit of a paradox of choice. You can customize damn near every field, font, card, and style in the app... but that's a bit overwhelming at first.
Fastmail has been working on an alternative api called jmap for ages which should modernise 3rd party clients. but as far as I’m aware they haven’t released it for real use and there are no clients.
and there's a couple of client & server implementations https://jmap.io/software.html
but it's a long long way from popular yet AFAICT from the lack of support from the big hosted mail providers other than fastmail.
Its been released & in use for years. (Nearly a decade at this point?).
The problem is all the big email providers - Apple Mail, GMail and Outlook haven't added support. Its a bit of a chicken and egg problem - there's no demand for jmap clients because so few servers support it. And there's no pressure on email servers to implement jmap because so few clients support it.
Source: Friends with some of the JMAP authors.
Do you mean that with an IMAP client you can't edit your server side Fastmail filters?
If so, a workaround is to use their web-based email client when you want to edit your filters.
If your explicit goal is to have a modern phone without Google specifically, you really should consider Apple.
Apple is much worse, I don't consider it a viable option. I was gifted an ipad recently, but couldn't use it without even entering my phone number (!). This is a ridiculous level of invasion that I'm not willing to put up with.
In fact, GIMP is the project I’d point to for why the bazaar model doesn’t work for large complicated GUI applications.
It's 2023 and it still doesn't even proper CMYK suppport... that's table stakes in this space.
Audacity is OK although buggy.
Inkscape was internally rendering at half of my display's resolution, and then it was upscaled. It looked absolutely awful. And none of the keyboard shortcuts matched the platform defaults. Cmd+S for save? Nope. Cmd+Z for cut? Nope. Cmd+A for select all? Nothing worked the way I expected.
It felt like I was running a program from the 90s in an emulator.
Try new Inkscape, and preferably on its home, Linux.
Easy, fast, free. Pick all 3.
For example can download all of your youtube history if you want. That's part of an access request.
Like, I work for a FAANG, I have for a long time. But I also do good within and outside that FAANG. I do habitat restoration, I get involved with political organizations that align with my views (mutual aid, socialism, etc.)
One doesn't have to care 100% or 0%, one can live with the understanding that we are in a system where you gotta pay your bills and have problematic favorites, while still trying to make things better where you can.
Like, no, you should not use AirBnB. But not because it requires you to "identify yourself". So do hotels, my man. And if someone doesn't want to do business with you, they should be allowed that freedom of choice as well. Just because someone provides a service, it doesn't mean they should be forced to provide it to you if they find you to be abusing their service in some fashion.
I don't hate and despise google like I do companies like fb. Google to me, if it was a person would be someone that is incredibly and impressively smart and capable yet chooses to be a dick a lot because of poor social skills but also because he/she is so rich they can afford to harm you and not worry about their reputation or legal fees if you sue them. I suppose what makes it hard for me to hate them completley is that some of their products are actually impressive and they don't have any usable social media services which makes them less harmful to society at large which isn't the case for any fb or linkedin service.
The only other tech company that is like Google is Microsoft in my opinion.
I really hope laws catch up to address the scumminess of these companies and places like Google get a change in leadership and culture. It's like Google was great for like 2 minutes and then became a really modern and super innovative version of comcast lol.
Reasons Not to Use Google (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20829715 - Aug 2019 (114 comments)
Reasons Not to Use Google (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13342941 - Jan 2017 (81 comments)