As a sidenote, the author says he does not like his kids playing "war" in Chinese playgrounds - I wonder how he will feel about the active shooter drills that are now part of every kids life in the US.
Note: I'm not Chinese.
As a sidenote, the author says he does not like his kids playing "war" in Chinese playgrounds - I wonder how he will feel about the active shooter drills that are now part of every kids life in the US.
Note: I'm not Chinese.
That affordable downtown housing which is on par with costs in Manhattan, where you'll hear someone renovating until 9pm every night and smell the sewage gas wafting from bathroom drains because what's a u-trap and inadequate underlying infrastructure.
Agreement between citizens that if they can cheat the laowai, or any mark really, or cut someone's line then they will.
Try living there for a bit. It's nice enough if you don't mind seeing the sun a few weeks a year through the smog.
China is actually fun to live in, but it's not a good place to live if you value your health, physical or mental. At least not the cities.
When I asked a local about it they got very angry, like I was insulting them. The need to save face in China is real. But I get it, "who is this American who thinks they can tell us how to do things?"
I didn't find the smog to be bad everywhere, though. Beijing was pretty bad in the morning/early afternoon. But from what I remember Chengdu was nice smog/weather wise.
Columbine was 1999. I think he'll be more surprised by the level of political division and general impoliteness there is in the US.
https://globalbrief.ca/2020/06/zeal-and-chinas-wolf-warrior-...
This goes way further than most to explain "Chinese characteristics" (my term usage not link's).
China is very complex and belies any simple summary. I definitely think it's a vastly smarter state than Russia... who by comparison it must now regard as a baby sitting project.
Sometimes, the political system is better.
People? There is nothing new under the sun.
Maybe Im missing your point, but to take a hyperbolic example, surely you wouldn't live in north Korea and say "There is no place, and no time, where people are better than what you see before you right now."
(Agreeing with you btw)
People can become hardened, callous, mean, and damaged to a greater or lesser degree in durable ways that outlast political circumstance.
If you beat and abuse a child, and that child will be more likely to beat and abuse others. This is called the cycle of violence. You can absolutely have times and places where this is more or less prevalent.
"people are people" on a slave plantation as well, but their behavior is not the same as those living in Seattle. If you flipped a switch on the political system overnight, the people would not flip with it. You might expect to see trauma and damage to impact behavior for generations to come, even if you magically teleported them to Seattle.
I know families that fled the cultural revolution in China, and it still has behavioral impacts on people 60 years later, including children who have never even been to China. Many viewed their neighbors as threats, thieves, and informants and are less "nice" to strangers as a result. It changed who they are as people in durable ways that outlasted the causal circumstance, and informed how they teach their children to treat strangers living in Seattle 60 years later.
Surely you can imagine a place where conditions are not conducive to "being nice" and as a result, people are less nice overall. You might see the same absolute range, with examples of extreme kindness or terrible behavior, but the mean and typical behavior can be shifted.
Anyway, I think the original point is that you really live in the small group of friends and your interactions with strangers, while also part of life, it's less meaningful. So, you can find a culture that matches you more closely, but unless the culture you are in is completely disgusting to you, you're probably optimising the wrong thing.
I would push back a little bit on the idea that these differences are purely superficial. Humans can have real cultural differences regarding where they find meaning in life, how they relate to others in society, and if they ever find satisfaction, happiness, and fulfillment in their own lives.
Just because such differences can not be summed and weighed against each other to determine which culture is "better", does not mean they are the same.
This is the post-modern sentiment that I reject. E.G the differences can not be compared so therefore they are the same.
I grew up in the US but I've lived in South Africa for nearly 10 years. I've also lived in Switzerland and Mexico.
So I've seen enough of a range of how people live to know there are better and worse conditions. Maybe there is no true perfect country or culture, but there are definitely tradeoffs.
You might love the culture and hate the government, or love the government but hate the culture.
Like I love how friendly South Africans are, but my God the government is so corrupt. I love how the Swiss government works, but Swiss people aren't known for being easy to make friends with. God forbid you flush the toilet after 10pm.
So depending on what you are optimizing for, some places really are better than others.
In retrospect, were you searching or escaping?
Hope you find your happy place. Good luck :)
Spain (the government and regulations around renting places) was unfriendly to newcomers as its a very socialist country and not very welcoming to digital nomads. Everything there is built in a way to expect a local bank account, local job, etc. From the moment of trying to get a local ID card it was clear that you were not really wanted there. Processes made purposely difficult and requirements differ from police station to police station. Beautiful country, but given that I do not intend to stop working remotely as a contractor it made basic things there very difficult. Spain is quite corrupt however so if you have money you _can_ get around these issues via some lawyer agencies who get you through the door in a matter of days of what otherwise can be a half-year wait in queue, but I just found the system fighting me too much.
Finland is great though, everything runs efficiently, most of everything can be done online, just like in Estonia, but much like Estonia, very difficult to make friends and the culture in general is quite closed and people keep to themselves a lot. Most people I know here have had the same friends since highschool. So when it came down to Finland or Estonia, I just chose the one I already had friends at.
You’re not just paying in your own freedoms. You’re paying in the freedoms of others, like the Muslims that the Chinese government have decided aren’t compatible with the “great society” that you seek.
It's not like China was a beacon of human rights until "now". I don't think SA is really a little brother either. They still behead people in public squares. The whole "human rights" issue in China is really just a pretext and use of U.S soft power to isolate China. But "everyone" know that at stake is really the economic and millitary rivality. The U.S couldn't really care less about the muslims in China. Just look how much it cares about women in Afghanistan. Let's stop pretending we are little children. China is starting to influence our way of life and we should push against that but I just hate the B.S pretexts. It feels like propaganda and we hate propaganda, don't we?
Are you making the argument that because there are things that are possibly worse, we should ignore the bad?
The surface-level infrastructure was interesting, it felt like Los Angeles - much more than it did Manhattan or SF aboveground - just blown up 3-to-5x. Wider streets with more lanes of cars, big mega apartment complexes just all four times taller than the common 5-story ones, etc.
The drive from central-ish Shanghai (Wujiaochang) to PVG was mindblowing because of the scale and frequency of the apartment megablocks ringing the city: identical enormous tower after identical enormous tower, lining the wide (but at the time oddly empty) thoroughfares. Felt like an alt opening scene to a Judge Dredd movie.
Some fun/awkward differences though. For instance, I had imagined it would be easy to find a laundromat - I didn't want to pay the hotel prices for cleaning. Ended up almost accidentally offending the people I was asking - "why would we need to go somewhere to do our laundry, we have laundry machines, we aren't poor" - while since a lot of US cities are older in the dense parts of town, laundry machines in-unit were less common even for sometimes pretty pricey places.
One of my big takeaways is that development is a lot easier and cheaper than redevelopment. Building a ton of new housing? Put in today's amenities! It might be crappy quality even in "luxury" new construction (whether here or there) but it's gonna be a lot easier than retrofitting into a bunch of units from 50 years ago. Want a QR-code/app-based payment system to take off? It's gonna be easier if you're one of the first widespread options to replace cash (like in China at the time) vs if you're competing with ubiquitous credit/debit cards in the US. Really illustrative of how things are path-dependent - and why I'm bearish on "super apps" replacing what we already have here.
In many (most?) European countries, debit cards and cash transfering apps are more common than credit-based payments. I have a credit card but I don't use it often (mostly for some online transactions, such as buying plane tickets), and many people only have a debit card.
That's the drukkhar architecture (we'll get to hear this word more often in the future). They are only missing giant grey flat-top pyramids: jusy as cold, efficient and brutalistic.
It's efficiency (fewer variants to make) + risk-minimization (design as a way of offending as few as possible for $$$ maximization instead of a way of expressing something).
There are so many great countries/cities in Europe for exactly what you are looking for! And much more. You will avoid all the negative points from China that someone listed on another comment. While improving your life beyond work. 1-3 hours to so many wide destinations from Paris to London, Amsterdam, Oslo, Jerusalem… All while beyond guns you will have same to more freedom. Less crime. On the health side unless you need the best surgeon in the field, you will find overall better healthcare across all level. Education is great to on part with the best (for kids with countries like Norway or Sweden it’s definitely the best. Others are catching up). And I can go on and on with cost of living compare to major US cities, the variety of cultures, landscapes, way of life etc… all packed in a US size continent.
I think if Americans are easy to the idea to leave the US and sacrifice some things, they will find a wide range of interesting opportunities.
Does China provide that? Honest question, I don't know much about it.
I visited Beijing once, and it ranks on the bottom of the cities I'd like to live in. Of course, it's just my personal impression and Beijing is obviously not representative of the whole China.
I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective.
> I’m genuinely curious because every person defines personal freedom differently. And great society is very subjective.
I couldn't agree more! I believe that all of us have to give up some personal freedom if we want to live in a functional society. I may want to blast music from my rooftop at 3AM but I must curb that urge out of respect for the society I live in. How much of this personal freedom we are willing to give up is different for different people. On this spectrum, I think I lie towards giving up more if it gives me a comfortable society in return.
I am willing to mask up if it means that fewer people in my vicinity may "possibly" get sick less. I am okay with video cameras and facial recognition in public places if it means less crime in my neighborhood. I am willing to pay more taxes if it means public infrastructure can be improved and schools can get better teachers. I might be wrong though, because these things can clearly be taken to an extreme.
Usually it becomes a problem because you are infringing on someone else’s personal freedom. So it’s still about maximizing personal freedom in that case.
> I think I lie towards giving up more if it gives me a comfortable society in return
It seems like you are very practical minded, which I appreciate.
I think the fundamental skepticism that those of us who tend to be more "libertarian" minded is whether you're actually getting value in return for giving up liberties.
> I am willing to mask up if it means that fewer people in my vicinity may "possibly" get sick less.
I think this was the mentality of the majority of people who supported universal masking, and I think it came from a genuinely good place. The issue that I had with it was the lack of evidence to support universal masking, and the draconian implementation without regard to potential negative consequences. It struck me at the time as being the TSA of pandemic response, more theater than effective intervention. Time and research seem to have borne this out.
> I am okay with video cameras in public places if it means less crime in my neighborhood.
Except they don't on their own [1], but they are an incredible weapon and boost in power granted to the surveillance state.
> I am willing to pay more taxes if it means public infrastructure can be improved and schools can get better teachers.
The relationship between taxes and education outcomes is complex (at best) [2], and you need only live in the North East for a short period of time, pay those exorbitant taxes and drive 95 and the Jersey Turnpike to understand that higher taxes don't necessarily translate to better infrastructure.
Drive from New Mexico, through Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama to Florida sometime and compare the roads and bridges.
I've lived all over the U.S. and experienced the difference between many states. They each have unique challenges, but I can tell you one rule that's held true in all my travels: granting more power and money to the government past a certain point doesn't translate into a better quality of life for the people.
[1] https://www.mtas.tennessee.edu/knowledgebase/there-empirical...
[2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2019/01/21/a-connec...
TBF it's much easier to maintain infrastructure in a mild climate.
There's significant quality differences between them that are noticable as soon as you drive across the state line.
I've done the drive many times, and it's always stood out to me.
Well obviously, since if you were Chinese you'd know that kids in China are doing drills to protect themselves against psychos with knives who attack schools. Like actual grownups with machetes randomly killing children. Those attacks are happening all the time by the way.
I think it's hard to really "know" a place, and frankly your experience anywhere will vary.
Granted sometimes people just need a change.
Travellers become unhappy both at home and abroad ...
The drawback of Taiwan is that there isn't nearly the level of "white monkey" opportunities and you aren't as exotic.
China is also more extreme. You will have more extreme positive experiences and more extreme negative experiences.
There's a simple way to navigate what you are talking about - look at actual immigrants. People vote with their feet and there's still a ton of Chinese and everyone else trying to come to the US, hardly a trickle going the other way.
Living in the US is amazing. Most of the problems that you are aware of aren't actually impacting you or anyone you know (like, school shootings are clearly top of mind for you but have you met anyone who met anyone affected by one? Probably not.)
China has a ton of problems that aren't readily apparent unless you are feet on the ground. The majority of the culture of china is, "dog eat dog" in that you will be scammed and taken advantage of unless you speak fluent Mandarin.
You will run into problems with excessive Chinese bureaucracy both with the government and services you need. The only way to break through is with a bribe.
Things we take for granted like food and product safety are secondary.
In the first month, I got incredibly sick for a food born parasite (this was from a good grocery store too nonetheless).
Don't ever eat from street vendors (google gutter oil).
You also run the risk of getting physically attacked when relations with America are rough. I heard stories of a guy that got jumped by a group of chinese men after Trump was elected. He didn't even vote for him and the police did not care.
China is the type of place you visit, make a bunch of money, and get out.
In all honesty, you'd be happier living in a 2nd or 3rd tier Benelux or Dach town.
Seems that term isn't common in English.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-A-CH
https://www.statista.com/topics/4623/dach-countries/#dossier...
Hope you are white. If so, I'm certain you'll have a great experience. You'll be shown the modernity and good side of living under the regime, and probably made to believe they are the rightful holders of the "Mandate of Heaven". Make sure to stay in Han dominated areas, and don't document of film anything that could make the regime lose face.
> Note: I'm not Chinese.
Why are you explicitly spelling it out? So we don't immediately assume this is propaganda?
Don't worry. If they like you enough, you'll even get paid for comments like these!
Fuck that. Our freedoms are already getting screwed by various acts of governments. Personal freedom is the most valuable thing for me.
- Dense cities: Yes. I grew up in the suburbs and love the density here and how walkable everything is.
- Affordable housing: A good place in a popular location in Beijing or Shanghai is about $2k USD a month. You can get that down to $1k if you have roommates.
- Great public infrastructure: public transit, yes, but I rarely need to take that anymore. Public parks aren't great. You can't drink the tap water.
- Modicum of agreement: political discussion is so thoroughly suppressed that we all engage in self-censorship. I guess that could be called "agreement", but when I think of agreement I think of a place like New Zealand.
Here are the great things you're maybe not seeing:
- There's a bit of friction in everything in daily life, and that somehow makes life more enjoyable for some kinds of people (including myself). I think a big reason for that is that most people here don't speak English.
- It's incredibly easy to make friends.
- Most people you meet are interesting: either they're an expat and they moved here because they didn't want to coast through life, or they're a local and they're curious about people from other cultures.
- Some jobs pay incredibly well. For example if you're a teacher (not a "teacher"), China is a big step up.
Here are the not-so-good things you're maybe not thinking about:
- Air pollution is still a thing. In some cities, half the days you'd like to go outside for a run, you shouldn't because the air is too bad.
- Things like national parks are more crowded, less natural, and less tastefully done here than in any other developed country.
- As a foreigner you can only stay at maybe half the hotels and guest houses around the country. The others will simply not allow you to stay.
- As an American you'll deal with special attention from the government.
- Going to a hospital where nobody speaks your native language is one of the most stressful experiences you will have.
...
>China fits the bill
All those things may exist but sheer concentration of population = QoL / "dynamism" still gets very uncomfortable and cut throat. PRC pace = good cities with livable QoL mix rapidly develop until they're not. Hence you get expat commends like Chongqing reminds me of Shanghai in 2000s. On the otherhand, plenty of big cities at varying degrees of development to bounce around, but that's a very different life style.
You can live in those places with far less political, language, thought-police concerns than mainland China.