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Comment by bkor | Hacker News Reader

Credit Suisse was involved in loads and loads of scandals. Joe Blogs summarized loads of them in a video: https://youtu.be/tAJRqpDqjLU?t=325

It's insane that this questionable bank which continuously says "problems have been addressed" scandal after scandal is now being saved. Public losses, private profit.

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Credit Suisse : Penalty total since 2000: $11,427,400,126

JPMorgan Chase : Penalty total since 2000: $36,129,286,132

Bank of America : Penalty total since 2000: $83,354,221,356

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/summary?parent=cr...

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/jpmorgan-c...

https://violationtracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/bank-of-am...

JPMC also has a $400B market cap. The fact that Credit Suisse has half their fines is impressive.

barely third :P

It is not a crazy idea. This bank is significant to the G7, and if the Swiss government does decide to intervene and take control, it doesn't necessarily mean the bank is being rescued. The situation is much more complex than simply equating public losses with private gains. If Switzerland takes over the bank, it will be an unprecedented event in history, and I would bet that it would be beneficial for customers in the medium to long term.

How does a bank owned by the state ensure the constitutional right given to Swiss citizens to banking secrecy? If you can answer this question in a way in which the government doesn't get banking information it by law shouldn't have, I could maybe see it as good news for customers... otherwise they will just provide a systematically inferior service than other, privately owned, banks in Switzerland.

They’ll just close their eyes of course. They pinky swear!

The whole banking secrecy thing is just another way to hide all of the money laundering, drug money, and tinpot African dictator money these banks have been holding all of these years.

The good news is folks in government are probably pretty implicated in this, so they will probably try to make sure there is a pretty strong partition.

I wish money laundering was impossible... by removing the rest of slavery that is the taxing system.

People would trade many things without being treated like criminals just for doing voluntary exchanges.

States are extremely greedy. I am of the opinion that they should know the less the better abt ur money or whatever.

On top of that look at what the current central banking policies are provoking... come on, it looks designed to empoverish us...

Whatever sort of minimal state you want to look at, who is going to pay for roads and public safety?

At this point banking secrecy must already have become a myth, hasn’t it?

Of course, if you’re the government of an African country trying to get to the accounts of some former strongman that used to rule the country I’m pretty sure that the secrecy is still there, but confronted against more persuasive powers (like the US in the recent past, most probably also the EU and the Swiss national government) I don’t think that said secrecy stands any chance.

There is no banking secrecy to Swiss residents. How the government would collect taxes ? It is not free of charge here.

There is no such thing as a "constitutional right given to Swiss citizens to banking secrecy". Swiss constitution does not provide anything of sort [1]. The "Banking Secret" is defined at art. 47 of the Federal Law on Banking [2] and it has a rather narrow definition.

So there is no such thing as "banking secret" for Swiss residents. Hence even if Credit Suisse is nationalized, it won't change anything for their customers, except perhaps an increase in trust.

[1]: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/1999/404/en [2]: https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/51/117_121_129/fr#art_47

Does your logic apply to every failed bank? If not, why not?

Only systematically important banks. There are even few official definitions for what is systematically important. Both CS and UBS are.

No, it doesn't. It applies to Switzerland.

It would also depend entirely on your definition of “acquire”.

If the Swiss government takes it over for 1 CHF then it’s entirely possible it’s long term a good deal for the Swiss populace.

You completely forgot about the price of outstanding liabilities. 1 CHF might be way too much to pay.

That’s why I said it’s possible it’s a good deal.

Totally agree with you.

They also have their tendrils into so many things, it’s likely ‘too big to fail’ for Switzerland. Potentially other countries too.

It’s an effective, albeit evil play I guess. A bit like a tumor metastasizing into an organ that is too dangerous to operate on, so it can’t be removed.

Credit Suisse is indeed one of several globally systemically important banks. The list is annually established by the Financial Stability Board [1].

[1]: https://www.fsb.org/2022/11/2022-list-of-global-systemically...

$BankName was involved in loads and loads of scandals. Its a way of life for Banks. Gets boring after a while. If you are around a bank, make sure your wallet is tightly secured to your body...

JP Morgan Chase:

"Scandals and scandals...agreed to pay the government $13 billion in penalties. Entered into “deferred prosecution agreements”, manipulated US Market...Paid $2.5 billion fine for failing for two decades to report activity by client Bernie Madoff, etc...etc.." - https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/sep/29/jpmorgan-ch...

Deutsche Bank:

"...Role in financial crisis of 2008, Espionage scandal, Libor scandal, Tax evasion, Russian money-laundering operations..." - https://www.dw.com/en/deutsche-banks-biggest-scandals/a-5497...

BNP Paribas:

"...Laundered US$100 billion, plead guilty in a New York state court to falsifying business records.." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNP_Paribas#:~:text=BNP%20Pari....

Goldman Sachs:

"The primordial Octopus..." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldman_Sachs_controversies

Wells Fargo:

"...Created fake accounts in the names of its customers without their knowledge or consent...." - https://www.thestreet.com/banking/zelle-scam-wells-fargo

Citigroup:

"Paid $2 Billion in Enron Scandal...Was the largest U.S. lender to the apartheid government of South Africa...etc..." - https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/11/business/citigroup-agrees.... https://www.corp-research.org/citigroup https://www.theguardian.com/business/2005/jun/11/corporatefr...

JP Morgan:

Sex Trafficking:

https://www.law360.com/articles/1587042/vi-gov-t-says-jpm-s-...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-17/former-jp...

Capitalism is successful. What are you trying to say here?

I'd struggle to mention a bank which hasn't done some seriously questionable stuff just in the last 15 years, this is nothing unique.

does that change anything with regard to this particular bank

Only in the context of OPs comment.

If we withhold help purely based on evidence of shady dealings then JPM, HSBC, DB, Well Fargo, Goldman and a whole butch of others should be liquidated by Monday lunch time in solidarity.

Personally i hate the barter system so i suggest we find a different judgement metric.

Honestly, the only way you could say that with a straight face is if you haven't been paying attention to CS over the past year.

Archegos and Greensill alone are astounding, and those blew up in just the past 6-9 months!

There were 4-5 banks that sold equity swaps to Archegos. CS and Nomura lost the race to the exits to GS and MS who exited first, and ended up holding the bag.

You can also read about the controversies in Wikipedia, if you don't want to watch some rando vlogger re-hashing a Wikipedia article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_Suisse#Controversies

You would think that with all those scandals they would at least be profitable.

As criminal as the CS bank(st)ers are, these losses are made up by what is essentially play money (central bank guarantees etc.)...

Again, depositors are saved and stock owners essentially lose all (given the low purchase price). So, whatever, I guess

One from FT: https://next-media-api.ft.com/renditions/16577943424950/1280....

Unfortunately other banks, too. Not something to mention specifically in this case. We must admit that banks have gone too big and need to be split up in the future.

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