That's only because almost everyone desirable goes there. If people stopped going, they could meet elsewhere.
The alternative is a variety of places, and practically all of them have some kind of tax; where it be coffee, alcohol, or some kind of membership fee.
What we are missing is called, "the third place".
Church is more equivalent to hobby clubs and work. Church is focused on a specific narrative, whether that be religious belief or generalized "unity". No matter how casual the experience, churches have purpose and exclusivity.
The third place isn't only physically missing: it's missing in our social behavior. It could easily exist in public parks, but we are expected to avoid strangers.
At what point will you stop saying
> It could easily exist in public parks, but we are expected to avoid strangers.
And instead admit that YOU don't want to meet strangers, and that YOU expect others to avoid YOU. Bars are still a thing. Guys and girls nights are still a thing. Bowling, soccer, football, drama club, night club, drugs, hiking, climbing, the gym and so on for literally a million other things. Millions of people partake in these things every day. Every. Day. They are all happy to do it without you, because quite frankly, you do not exist.
Just admit you love sitting on the internet rather than going outside. Just admit it. It is bizarre that this is even a talking point. You learned how to be anti-social because you've found that it benefited you, there is no risk to being online, you don't have to embarrass yourself talking to other people. You don't want confrontation, you don't want to deal with the emotions and personal lives of others, you don't want any of the baggage that comes from interacting with humans whatsoever.
Even with the invention of the internet, you can invent your own "third place", and many have in numerous ways including forums, social media, special interest groups, gaming communities ALL exist here. So no. I won't listen to this bullshit of a missing 'third place'. You are anti-social, and you don't want to fix your issues.
And, as an atheist, why in the hell would I?
If I attend a church, I will be expected to participate. At the very least, whatever narrative that church focuses on will be the topic of a significant portion of conversation. That is entirely contradictory to the "third place" I am talking about.
Your insinuation that I am the problem for choosing not to embrace a church as my third place proves my point. I can't even talk to you about the idea of a third place without you evangelizing in response.
Like you said, there are a million things: every one of them has an intentional purpose: a predetermined subject. Every one of them has the potential for meeting people, but "meeting people" is not the point!
> So no. I won't listen
Exactly. Here we stand in a world where most people (including you) are only willing to listen to the people from their chosen social groups. We can't even talk to each other without first sorting ourselves into categories of interest!
This is the failure of church: unification by demand. One narrative to rule them all; but in reality, competing with many other narratives. Why must we join a team in the first place? It's it really that hard to just talk to each other?
Look, you're in the position you are because you don't like people. Just stop pretending like you actually want something to do socially. You don't. That's why you're here whinging about a conspiracy of a lost "third place". You left every group in the first place on your own. You are antisocial, and you don't want to live life any other way.
> Like you said, there are a million things: every one of them has an intentional purpose: a predetermined subject. Every one of them has the potential for meeting people, but "meeting people" is not the point!
It literally is the single point.
> Exactly. Here we stand in a world where most people (including you) are only willing to listen to the people from their chosen social groups. We can't even talk to each other without first sorting ourselves into categories of interest!
Narrative building and a weird diatribe, groups have always self sorted.
> This is the failure of church: unification by demand. One narrative to rule them all; but in reality, competing with many other narratives. Why must we join a team in the first place? It's it really that hard to just talk to each other?
This isn't a discussion, once again. This is you inventing a problem.
You are making all kinds of accusations about my own personal behavior. That's not what I'm talking about, either! Just because I don't go to church doesn't mean I'm "antisocial". I have friends, I interact in groups, and I'm literally writing an HN comment right now. My entire point is that none of that is the "third place".
> groups have always self sorted.
That is precisely when they move from the "third place" to the "second place": when they become explicit "groups".
> This isn't a discussion, once again. This is you inventing a problem.
One again, this is you refusing to just have a conversation. You are so intent on criticizing me, so that you can win some vain competition, that you have completely missed what I am talking about in the first place. If you can't find it in your worldview, it must not exist, or it must be a mistake. Why must there be judgement? Why must there be a winner? Not every idea fits into a narrative of competition.
OK, seems like you're still pissed about the church comment, don't go to church then, I forgive your sins, athiest.
> That is precisely when they move from the "third place" to the "second place": when they become explicit "groups".
Even the reddit comment you stole this idea from tells you explicitly what "first", "second", and "third" place means. You are not correct.
> One again, this is you refusing to just have a conversation.
You are presenting an idea as if it's correct, whether it has any bearing in reality, you are presuming as if somehow, everyone must accept your idea as if it is a fact. This really isn't a conversation, you don't want this to be a conversation either.
> You are so intent on criticizing me, so that you can win some vain competition, that you have completely missed what I am talking about in the first place. If you can't find it in your worldview, it must not exist, or it must be a mistake.
Pot, kettle, whatever.
> Why must there be judgement? Why must there be a winner? Not every idea fits into a narrative of competition.
Yeah, sure buddy.
> You are making this whole thing incredibly personal. I'm not even talking about myself! I'm taking about interpersonal societal behaviors.
I will make things as personal or as impersonal as I want, that has no bearing on how others perceive it. Clearly, if you are so affected by my statements, then the literal "you" aligns almost exactly with the metaphorical "you" as I used. This isn't debate club and I have no intention on treating it as if it were.
The point of a third place, at least as I see it, is to have no purpose at all. Just be around other people and talk about whatever.