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Comment by andreygrehov | Hacker News Reader

I think it's important to understand the why behind people buying these cars. One can bullshit on how terrible (light-)trucks are all day long, but that won't change a thing. The market exists and it's not going to shrink anytime soon.

I'm thinking of getting an SUV. Why? Well, because my family is growing and at some point we won't fit into a regular 5-seater.

I would love to live in a city primarily designed for walking, but such cities are overpacked and have crazy high real-estate prices.

Before bullshitting on SUVs, maybe it's worth looking into a core issue - start investing into a smaller cities, incentivize corporations to leave New York, San Francisco, etc. - spread them all out across the US and create the smaller versions of Manhattan.

I could be wrong though, but that's my take on it.

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He addresses the size of vehicle issue and explains how station wagons or vans are more practical than SUVs for most families. Perhaps your situation is different, but I felt he made a compelling case.

I'm in the middle of the video right now, but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons. The author makes a lot of claims that I do not share (not all of them though). For example, I do find G63 a cool looking car. On the other hand, pick up trucks are ugly as hell. But for some people they are not. People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied.

It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed.

> People are different and they prefer different things. That's what makes our lives interesting and varied.

Agree, however, I think the a key point of the video is about how we balance our own experience vs. that of the community we live in. SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it. He shed light in areas where I wasn't so familiar such as blind spots and child fatalities.

> It feels like the author wants to fix the problem by just saying "Hey people, don't buy SUVs. Hey corporations, don't manufacture SUVs", whereas a more strategic and "backward" approach is needed.

I thought his main argument was that people respond to incentives. That's why 40 years ago the Ford Escort was so popular vs. the F150 today. These incentives are driven by government regulation. He acknowledges that it is rational to buy an SUV when everyone has one because it's game theory. The way out is for society to regulate trucks more fairly according to their broader costs. There are reasons we need trucks and we should have trucks, but perhaps we shouldn't incentivize that to be the primary vehicle for everyone.

> SUVs and light trucks have a cost and it's fair to question if that cost is worth it

Yep, it's worth it. Question answered. for me at least.

> but honestly, I absolutely hate the look of station wagons.

Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that. Or the peer pressure from having a vehicle that "stands out" from all of the SUVs on the road?

I'm not trolling here, I'm genuinely asking those questions.

> Are you sure about that? Perhaps it's the $billions that US automotive manufacturers have spent to make you _think_ that.

It's hard to answer that question. How do I know? My brain just tells me: "This car is ugly af, don't ever get one". My guess is that these cars are convenient, but I would never want to own one.

For me, it wasn’t an option, even though a wagon was my first choice. I don’t live near a shop that services Subarus (or someone that sells them), so the Outback was not an option. In terms of what was in inventory at the dealers I visited, the smallest things you could get were either sports cars or crossovers —- if manufacturers were making station wagons, the dealers weren’t stocking them.

Buy some spanners, watch some YouTube, learn how to fix it yourself. You'd save a lot of money.

Van vs. SUV seems like a distinction without a difference, at least as far as “crossover” SUVs are concerned, which are by far the best selling style in the US. If anything, most crossovers are probably smaller, nimbler, and get better gas mileage than the typical minivan. And for the most part, stations wagons don’t exist anymore in America.*

* The Subaru Outback is now essentially a crossover SUV. I guess you might still be able to buy the wagon version of one model of Audi?

He's in Europe, so by "van" he means the vehicle at the top of [1], which is by far the first choice for most people who need to carry significant tools or equipment for their job.

The second choice is an ordinary station wagon / estate car with the rear windows optionally replaced by metal panels. (Possibly more secure, in some countries also less vehicle tax.) These usually have something like "Network installer" or some sort of engineer written on the side -- some tools, but not so bulky and probably further to drive between jobs.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van

I had a van in the past, they are awesome. Lots of space, stuff stays dry, great handling if you're in a model that sits you over the front wheels. You'd want decent bull bars for frontal impact protection tho.

Bull bars defeat the whole pedestrian safety benefit.

The EU and UK have strict limits on what's allowed, the type you see in Australia and the USA are banned. It's frustrating that the first website I find selling something similar lists the main benefit of bull bars as "styling".

I fully support the people who vandalize vehicles with bull bars parked in urban areas.

https://www.truckman.co.uk/blog/post/are-bull-bars-legal

I don't think it is correct to vandalize a vehicle with a bullbar parked in an urban area. You don't know if they are just visiting from out of town.

How about I vandalize your house because I don't like your ring doorcam. Or vandalize your dog because it barked at me? If I caught someone vandalizing my pride and joy I'd vandalize their face.

Excusing vandalism of private property should always be opposed because you don't know what someone will excuse to vandalize your property. It's a very short sighted opinion.

If bull-bars are 'needed', the vehicle will already have scratches from off-road driving.

In some European cities, some off-road vehicles are already banned from urban areas, or require special permits. Currently I'm only aware of this applying to heavy(ish) commercial vehicles. It's not a given that any vehicle need drive anywhere, at the owner's convenience and society's detriment.

You might consider the effect of your vehicle on your family's faces, if you have a moment of inattention while driving near your home.

Needed and wanted. I want a full exo cage where the whole vehicle has a roll cage on the outside. Even more crash protection, plus it doubles as a roof rack and deck for taking in whatever wonderful view you just drove to.

I'm OK with not having off road vehicles in the city but then I have multiple vehicles so I could dedicate one to going to the city. Where as some people might only be able to have one. But then the only reason I would ever be in a city is to go to a hospital.

As my family are not mongoloids milling about in the street I'm sure their faces will be fine.

Lots of vans are the same size as SUVs ... So only certain size vans are allowed? What is the cutoff?

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