Prostate cancer could be treated by destroying tumors with electric currents
telegraph.co.uk
telegraph.co.uk
A quick internet search for "electrical ablation cell apoptosis cancer" yields a few research articles. For example https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fonc.2020.01235...
I'd assume there's more nuance this time around. At least I'd hope so.
The article points to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreversible_electroporation
You can do quite a bit with electrical signals, perhaps there's some novel instruments and feedback loops being used
Previously he'd had the radioactive beads treatment which failed, the only other option was removal. Both these options have potentially unpleasant side effects.
Happy to ask him questions if anyone wants to know more
I've been in Cancer Research for 5 years and am now starting my own idea to help (utilizing my background in software engineering and data science): CancerDB.com a public domain ad-free knowledge graph. The idea is to get a core group of researchers collating all the data into one place that's accessible by both patients, families, caregivers, and researchers.
"After a full workup to ensure that our patients are suitable for the program they then undergo a day surgery procedure which takes between 40 and 60 minutes. Depending on the extent of the cancer this may simply ablate the lesion, a quarter of the prostate or a half of the prostate. No prostate cancer cells are resistant to this treatment. Large areas can be treated with minimal side effects.
After the treatment patients stay in the day surgery unit for two to four hours and they are discharged home with a Foley catheter in place. Postoperatively pain is minimal and patients are discharged with tablets for mild pain, moderate pain, bladder spasms and relaxation of the prostate and antibiotics as required.
On day 2 a limited multiparametric MRI is performed. The Foley catheter is left in for two to five days depending on the extent of the treatment."
I'll ask him about prep / recovery
Recovery wasn’t so bad but you have a catheter for a bit. Cancer drugs and all but no hair loss. IIRC, he was very low energy. He’s been cancer free for over a decade.
There’s a chance you can lose the capability to get an erection so you’ll want a good surgeon (I did not discuss this with my dad). Another person I knew had to wear a small pad because he could have a small amount of urine dribble. He said he could pee like a horse and it was much easier post op.
Also gan get "the finger" to see if you have an enlarged prostate.
I think as far as cancers go, prostate is one of the better ones to get, not normally aggressive, you'll probably die before it kills you.
Test often if you have family history.
We're seeing a lot of early presentations in both contributing to the lower screening start by the USPTF, evidence still coming in on lung and what to do.
Whether to actively surveil vs treat depends on individual patient characteristics and grade (generally Gleason 7+) and the fact that you didn't have a complication does not mean they're not sufficiently high. On a population level analysis the evidence clearly support that there is no improved mortality with prostate cancer screening.
Further Googling showed it has been around since 2008 and machine in 2010 the machines cost $300k. Maybe the novel application is prostate cancer?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052748704029304575525...
And a dumbed-down video primer on how it works: https://nanoknife.com/technology/
Basically they insert somewhere between two and a handful 1mm diameter needles, then pulse with high voltage to kill the cells in between.
The article mentioned concerns from doctors that it hadn't been through large clinical trials yet. 13 years later, does anyone know of those trials have taken place?
How high? Or is it the current that is controlled?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreversible_electroporation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroporation#Physical_mecha...
A) In addition to 1/6 men being diagnosed with PCa, an ~equally large percentage of men have undiagnosed cancer at the time of death, it just wasn't severe enough yet to be the thing that killed them. (1)
B) Because treatment carries a 50% risk of sexual and/or urinary dysfunction side effects, the standard of care in the US for PCa is literally to leave the cancer untreated and monitor it closely, until it develops into an aggressive cancer. At that point, we treat the entire prostate (the opposite of "focal" therapy referenced in this article) and all bets are off re: side effects. Also, often by that time, the cancer has spread outside of the prostate and is much more difficult to treat.
(1) https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S246829422...
Google Translated: https://www-dr-dk.translate.goog/nyheder/penge/kontant/kraef...
It's still a Proof of Concept, but I think it's an interesting project to invest on. https://metropolis.scienze.univr.it/project/prost/
We have great diagnostic accuracy with TRUS+MR fusion with standard equipment.
This just looks much slower and more expensive.
Also what stage was he at when they used this procedure?
I recall him telling me that he asked the staff how long it would be before they could start and they told him they were about half way through!
Quality of life: damage to the pancreas was not reversible, but the tumour was very much reduced and there was no further deterioration for a good while. For usnit was worth it (despite not being available on the NHS at that time).
that's the therapies we want to see more of
happy that your family could enjoy some more time
take care
We use it quite a bit in radiology. Usually faster / easier to use thermal ablation (microwave or cryo these days, used to be radiofrequency more often) but there are cases where it’s not feasible due to heat sinking or other reasons and IRE is an alternative.
Early diagnosis is key to survival.
This is so well known we have terms to describe the phenomenon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_time_bias
Many health care provision systems don't invest in screening tests or other early-detection schemes, or they do make them available, but don't invest in raising awareness of their availability. I'm actually now at the age where I should start thinking about "What new periodic tests/checkups should you introduce within the next 5 years?" ... and at this point I'm still clueless, except that I know that at around 50 I should start getting my PSA checked.
Of course, many tests are valuable, with results that can lead to effective treatment. But, it's hard to know which is which without significant study.
Refs:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/06/13/1104141... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8628817/ https://www.americanpatient.org/medical-tests-to-avoid-that-...
There is medium evidence that PSA screening does not improve overall mortality, strong evidence of harms and moderate evidence to support early detection for overall weak recommendations (grade C) to consider screening in 55-69 (50 in US and EU) for patients who decide they want it after shared decision making[0-3].
I definitely would not say that everyone should, it's a personal decision after a discussion. As a physician I personally wouldn't.
Note the guidelines differ for carriers of certain genetic mutations or are high risk.
> Many health care provision systems don't invest in screening tests or other early-detection schemes, or they do make them available, but don't invest in raising awareness of their availability.
This is a stretch, I'm not sure where you're living but this is not true in US, to a minimal extent in Canada (we still require GPs to send requisitions for mammograms in patients age 40-49 but the screening program covers 50 in spite of newer guidelines but we definitely provide age-approriate screening oral), and should not be in major European countries based on their own guidelines.
The reason no one is pushing PSA screening on you is because most physicians don't believe it and the recommendations themselves are very weak, only in patients who themselves desire it.
[0]https://www.auanet.org/guidelines-and-quality/guidelines/pro...
[1]https://www.uspreventiveservicestaskforce.org/uspstf/recomme...
[2]https://www.cua.org/system/files/Guideline-Files/7851_v6_1.p...
[3]https://uroweb.org/guidelines/prostate-cancer/chapter/diagno...
It's a screening blood test which, when positive, makes you go get a more serious exam. So the effect of a false positive is that you get, say, an MRI. So at worst, 3x the required number of MRIs will be taken due to such screening. It's not even excessive irradiation of people.
> we don't have enough evidence yet to support this as screening
For the general population, you may be right, I'm not an epidemiologist. For people with a strong family history of prostate cancer it's a different story. The point is the different people need to consider different checkups based on their personal medical situation and family history.
> literature is 3% infection rate requiring hospitalization
Prostate cancer rarely requires hospitalization - unless you do nothing about it for so long that it metastasizes. Otherwise, treatment is typically as an outpatient. So that metric is also not really relevant I would say.
> PSA screening does not improve overall mortality
Again, wrong metric. You can wait until symptoms appear and still have very low chances of mortality, but the damage due to treatment is much more significant.
The point is to catch the prostate cancer early enough, that treatment can get rid of it with very little damage to surrounding tissue.
> this is not true in US, to a minimal extent in Canada
In the US, a large part of the population is not even cared for medically: There is no universal automatic coverage of residents.
Also - medical health providers can easily bring up arguments such as those you have brought up, to avoid screening even conditionally for various health risks.
So I believe you have an overly lenient evaluation of screening policies.
> The reason no one is pushing PSA screening on you is because most physicians don't believe it
Based on your questionable choice of arguments and facts, I am not very credulous that this statement is indeed true, and that a proper survey with the proper question and relevant information has been put to the relevant physicians.
At any rate, at least first link you gave, to the description of the issue by the AUA, is very saddening, because they also mis-represent the dilemma, and apparently aren't bothered about people's quality of life as long as they don't die. I've been told otherwise by more than one Eurologist, and with an insistence to the degree of making me set a phone calendar appointment several years from now to remind me to go get my first PSA blood test.
Actually it’s not, prostate MRI is still new and a positive PSA with negative MRI will still get a biopsy, some “centers of excellence” may practice differently but I trained in the highest volume prostate MRI center in North America and this is certainly not the case at the moment. There is insufficient evidence to support your claim that we can stop at MRI at this time.
> For people with a strong family history of prostate cancer it's a different story. The point is the different people need to consider different checkups based on their personal medical situation and family history.
This is included in our guidelines which are intended for average risk patients. There is insufficient evidence to come down hard for high risk patients (1st degree relative < 65 at diagnosis being one) hence why it’s a shared decision making process. Most people screen this group of patients in my practice experience.
> Prostate cancer rarely requires hospitalization
This is the hospitalization rate for BIOPSY. Even metastatic prostate cancer rarely requires hospitalization.
> The point is to catch the prostate cancer early enough, that treatment can get rid of it with very little damage to surrounding tissue.
I’m not sure how you think this is true. Robotic prostatectomies and curative intent radiation are the standard of care for organ defined disease (representing 90-95% of cases detected WITHOUT screening, obviously higher with) and both carry significant risks of impotence and incotinence.
First line treatment of disseminated disease is androgen deprivation which actually isn’t as morbid as you claim.
> Also - medical health providers can easily bring up arguments such as those you have brought up, to avoid screening even conditionally for various health risks. So I believe you have an overly lenient evaluation of screening policies.
Every doctor practices evidence based medicine. The USPTF, AUA and EUA/ESUR all recommend against routine screening. There is a proposal right now in Europe to re-evaluate this recommendation given the emergence of prostate MRI and potential to avoid biopsy but again we’re getting into experimental/emerging areas hence why this is a /discussion/ with your provider and participating in /shared decision making/ rather than telling everyone “go get your PSA screen”.
I’m not sure why you’re calling every major societal guideline a questionable choice of evidence? We practice evidence based medicine not science based medicine.
PSA screening WAS a thing until studies came out showing harm and the USPTF changed their recommendation.
Some urologist like following PSA in average-risk patients because it’s a quick and easy billing visit. I assure you the physician societies all consider patient morbidity when making these recommendations, overall mortality is still the most important metric in medical research because it is the least subjective to bias. As discussed above the treatment options for disseminated disease have low morbidity and the treatment options for confined disease have similar-higher morbidity.
What is saddening about the AUA perspective or the dilemma the medical society is failing to understand? Can you provide any evidence to suggest prostate cancer screening reduces morbidity?
[1] http://vetiqure.se/our-products/
[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5092241/
[3] https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/electrical-health-diag...
Not so much in response to this rather grandstanding appeal to authority but just to describe how a product like this can be developed I can state that my wife is a veterinarian specialised in horses while I am a developer with a lot of experience in developing hard- and software. If we wanted to develop something like this we certainly could and maybe we will. Medical technology is not magic after all, the process which lies behind this system is known and has been researched [1] extensively - not by those who built the €25.000 unit, they just did what you insinuated we should not do.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biolog...
1/6 is a rather large risk.
Yes, cancer is never good but for most men prostate cancer develops late and is usually growing very slowly and doesn't spread.
Here are a bunch of slides of prostate samples. Find the cancerous one.
This led to the teacher getting so many questions about whether the slide someone was currently looking at was the cancerous one that he was forced to interrupt the class to make this more general announcement:
There's a bit of cancer in everyone's prostate. Find the slide with obvious cancer.
The question is whether your body sees and kills the cancer cells; most of the time it does, which is why most of us can live pleasantly for most of our lives despite errors cropping up silently. What we term cancer are the cancer cells that slipped past our body's defences, growing into masses that cause no end of grief.
To put it in computer terms, it's like error correction in HDDs and SSDs and ethernet connections. Errors are inevitably going to occur while data is in transit, but they are of no concern so long as error correction and other such mechanisms can correct and recover. The errors do become a concern when they start slipping past such mechanisms, however.
That is as much a philosophical question as it is biological, and one where the answer will vary by who is asked.
Personally, I will say this: If you're miserable while endeavouring to prevent cancer (or any other disease), that's putting the cart before the horse. The goal is, presumably after all, to live happily.
I would not expect a man in his late 20s to fall into the category "men of an advanced age". But I would be unsurprised to learn that there was visible protocancer in a sample of his prostate.
The above link mentions "one in eight men" will be affected by prostate cancer.
If you have the deadly fast-growing type of prostate cancer, it'll be evident soon enough.
Doctors don't try to do the test on every man over 55 without a good reason.
There are an estimated 43,780 deaths attributable to breast cancer and 34,500 to prostate cancer in the US for 2022[0] and 5555 vs 4600 respectively in Canada. This is spite of aggressive screening and early treatment vs not really for prostate cancer.
Some guidelines suggest that it's reasonable to continue in patients with >10-15 year life expectancy if the patient desires, but there is no strong recommendation or evidence to support this recommendation or screening in this age group.
Some guidelines actually have a strong recommendation to stop screening men with < 15 year life expectancy.
Even less evidence for a DRE. PSA by a GP is sufficient if you desire screening.
I believe my father's prostate cancer was found via DRE and not PSA. That is, PSA was in the normal range. That is what made me get a DRE from a urologist once a year (since then).
PSA cutoff trades sensitivity and specificity. It isn’t a binary positive/negative.
There are certain highly aggressive but very rare subtypes (e.g. neuroendocrine) that will present with low PSA levels. Rarely an aggressive adenocarcinoma (Gleason 8+) will present with low PSA. Screen detected prostate cancers with low PSA are most likely clinically insignificant [0].
If you are known to have a first degree relative with a rare subtype then routine screening guidelines don’t apply to your circumstance.
Important points to keep in mind:
Just because a prostate cancer is “found” it doesn’t mean it needs to be treated.
There is no survival benefit when comparing treating early prostate adenocarcinoma (conventional and most common type representing 99% of prostate cancers) at very low PSA vs using 4ng/mL as a cutoff.
There are verifiable and proven harms with over treatment of low grade prostate cancer, workup of a “nodule” felt on DRE in the context of normal PSA is more likely to harm a patient than benefit them even if cancerous which forms the basis of current guidelines.
All forms of cancer screening will have edge cases that are missed. Even in your father’s case only the peripheral zone is palpable by DRE (would miss transitional zone or 20% of cancers). When considering recommendations to make at a population level harms vs benefits have to be carefully weighed, in the case of prostate the evidence strongly suggests against DRE, and weakly against prostate cancer screening in general.
Looking towards the future, there is probably a role for prostate MRI somewhere which is good at detecting clinically significant (Gleason 7+) cancers but this is still being actively studied and we don’t have enough evidence at this time to support screening.
[0] https://bjui-journals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.11...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/good-news-and-bad-news-kid...
Most of them are caused by lifestyle/environment: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw/2.0/html/tileshop_pmc/t...
> Over one third of cancer deaths worldwide (and about 75–80% in the United States) are potentially avoidable by reducing exposure to known factors.
> Common environmental factors that contribute to cancer death include exposure to different chemical and physical agents (tobacco use accounts for 25–30% of cancer deaths), environmental pollutants, diet and obesity (30–35%), infections (15–20%), and radiation (both ionizing and non-ionizing, up to 10%).
> less than 0.3% of the population are carriers of a cancer-related genetic mutation and these make up less than 3–10% of all cancer cases.
In my 60s I would definitely go for something like this although I'm always a little leery of treatments that have cool sounding brand names.
Is this still in clinical trials?
Side note: Does this give any credibility to the idea that magnets can heal?
https://www.epa.gov/radtown/electric-and-magnetic-fields-pow...
Also, the mechanisms of this and that are not the same - they're literally killing cells with electricity here, not healing.
Listen to: Harnessing The Electricity In The Human Body - https://one.npr.org/i/1161296499:1161962636
#winnin
https://www.boots.com/health-pharmacy/electrical-health-diag...
Replace the pads with some needles, insulate most of the needle with lacquer leaving only the points free...
READY ... AIM ... FIRE!