Citymapper Joins Via
content.citymapper.com
content.citymapper.com
If you can identify a niche and keep your costs down then you might have a chance. Apps targeted at enthusiast cyclists continue to do well, for example, although I have my doubts about expenditure vs revenue for some of them. (Disclaimer: I run a small-scale cycle routing app/site.)
But "people who want to get around Western European and North American cities" is not a niche that Apple/Google were ever going to overlook.
[1] "Citymapper investors are mostly not making their money back in the transaction and that it’s effectively a washout": https://techcrunch.com/2023/03/16/via-acquires-trip-planning...
Apple and Google tend to be slower to add suggestions like this because they scale poorly to other cities. But it's only a matter of time before they add them.
Google has a policy of requiring transit agencies to provide APIs and use standard formats, while Citymapper tries to make each city feel like its own app with lots of effort put in.
This never seems as useful as it should be because I'm missing a reliable way to know which direction a London Underground train will approach from?
There is a red stop light, but many stations have these at both ends of the platform. Is there some signage or other piece of infrastructure that gives it away?
The crowning feature of Transit is the GO trips that let you share you location while on a bus with others. For bus arrival accuracy there’s nothing better. It’s probably saved me a flight or two before, by just making sure I get the 747 bus to the airport.
i do like that the departure times are (slightly) more accurate because of the crowd-sourcing. however, the underlying data from metro is a mess, so they end up looking bad anyway because trains and buses still show up (or don't) unexpectedly due to metro's unreliable data.
I've also had issues with Transit surfacing incorrect bus routes based on cancelled buses (but scheduled) which CityMapper somehow could account for. Transit knows the next scheduled bus two minutes away isn't "live" (icons are different) but still surfaces it as a primary suggestion, while Citymapper wouldn't.
They've dressed up the announcement so much that you can't even understand what they're announcing.
(More text, less pictures...)
https://ridewithvia.com/news/via-acquires-citymapper-to-expa...
(Edit: When I say informative... it's unfortunately still dripping in marketing-speak fluff).
Marius here - VP Engineering for Citymapper (powered by Via)
We are excited about the opportunities this creates for the product and team. We are looking forward to join an excellent tech company. Happy to answer any questions.
And we are hiring as we are expanding our product and team. For openings to work on the Citymapper app and tech please visit https://citymapper.com/jobs or write to marius@citymapper.com
Could you give an idea about the tech stack powering citymapper?
We run a large deployment of services to support millions of daily active users across the 450+ cities that the Citymapper app operates in - all on AWS EKS. Most of the code of the backend services is written in Python and we have CPP and some Go services or modules as we deal with a lot of CPU and memory intensive workloads (eg routing) as well as high I/O workloads (we are using 1000s of different data sources)
The apps and SDK are written in Kotlin / Swift / React
As others have pointed out, their core value of routing/planning/exploiting Open Data became heavily commoditised by Apple, Google, and the transport operators themselves (e.g. TfL in London). Their belated attempts to monetise payments, data, even running transport itself, haven't been successful: it's a crowded, aggressive market filled with long-time incumbents who have established relationships and deep strategic control points.
As a place to work / founder values... ..well, the reviews on Glassdoor speak for themselves. I can't say I'm grieving for its loss.
Some cities, like the Park City area in Utah, integrate the busses and Via vans into a single app to optimize the use of both. Citymapper could do this in-app in the future, creating chained transit options.
I think it’s a uniquely Chicago problem.
Here is an article on it: https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/cta-makes-more-changes...
I’ve personally also experienced the same issue with SF’s Muni.
As someone who has first hand experience with transit agencies, the tech infrastructure is unfortunately not to the level it should be.
That said, google isn’t always the easiest to communicate with when trying to fix such issues.
1. Most accurate arrival times (this matters _a lot_ for transfers)
2. If your trip has transfers, it takes into account how long it takes to walk between platforms (some apps assume its instant, but if it's a large station it can take the better part of 10 minutes to get to another train)
3. Tells you which part of the train (forward, middle, back) to sit in so you're closest to the exit when you get off
4. Service changes are accurate and automatically included in the routing
5. Powerful routing options -- if it's raining, you can prioritize routes with less walking, or if you have a Citibike membership you can create routes that combine biking + transit, etc.
It's honestly good enough that I pay $20/year for it. Every once in a while I give Apple Maps or Transit a shot, but they're just not on the same level.
I'm not sure if this is the case with Citymapper. Transit does offer alternatives, but I don't think I've ever encountered this with Citymapper, i.e., you're committed to a particular route once you start. With Transit, I often get a suggestion (while on the train) that I might not make it in time for my connection with X train, and the next Y train leaves in Z minutes. I feel with Citymapper I only get something like this if alternate trains were part of the initial route segment, eg, N/R/Q trains. I also feel Citymapper does a much worse job updating ETAs or arrival times for alternative trains than Transit.
Ah. To be fair, I think all the apps do this now, including Google and Apple Maps.
Regarding alternate routes with Citymapper, I kind of wish it offered me alternates that don't necessarily include the original end station. I find I often end trips at stations I'm supposed to switch trains at and find routes to different stations than my initial route that still save time.
Citymapper is also much quicker to incorporate changed schedules and excludes delayed / cancelled trains from results within minutes of the changes being announced.
For altered schedules, Google is not only slower to react but also just posts a generic link to the TfL website - and you then have to parse the TfL notice yourself to understand which stations / bus stops are closed etc. The routes suggested by Google also still include cancelled trains / buses - it's your job to double check by visiting the TfL / train operator's websites.
It's also surprisingly useful to have two mapping apps on mobile devices which otherwise make it difficult to have two separate routes open at once.
Also, the app oozes personality.
I did apply to citymapper at some point to no avail unfortunately.
Citymapper is definitely hiring now. https://citymapper.com/jobs Or feel free to contact me directly on marius@citymapper.com
Have recommended it to so many people. Biking wouldn't be the same without it.
I really doubt that after less than 5 years it will be rolled into Via.
Is there any thriving UK startups still around acquiring US companies? It seems that the news I see is US company acquires UK startup when I don't see the other way round.
Really makes the UK startup scene just a european HQ for US companies at a discount.
But London is where most of the innovative high-paying firms are. So tech workers are in a bind: move to London for a nominally high-paying tech job but get fucking hosed on rent and travel costs, or stay in the regions and work in a lower paid, less interesting firm. There isn't much real difference to your standard of living.
It's not just the absolute level of rent either; it also goes up faster. People don't want that kind of liability, you need a raise just to stay in place, and raises aren't forthcoming lately.
And it's not easy to get a London-tier salary while working remotely from rural Yorkshire or something. They've been tamping down hard on that kind of thing.
The housing market is rigged for boomers and it's strangling Britain's growth. Forget freedom of movement with Europe; I'd like freedom of movement inside my own fucking country first.
(And all of the above sounds similar to NYC and SF -- it is, but London's salary upside is nowhere near as high as those places. And Americans have several big metropoles to choose from, we only have the one.)
I'm just ranting. I don't know the answer, I don't know what they should be doing. But there's a ton of people doing cool things (or trying to!) and absolutely as you say, it's a whole lot harder to take any risks when London costs as much as it does and bills and expenses are doing what they're doing.
there's also our sad little "Silicon Fen" around Cambridge, again rubbish because of housing affordability and lack of good transport links. it's a national tragedy that there isn't a direct railway link between Oxford and Cambridge (thanks Dr Beeching).
I say this as someone that used to live and work in London (and spent a small time living in Birmingham as a child), Birmingham has a HUGE way to go to convince anyone like me to live there
It may be big, but attractive it is not
I'm lucky to be working remotely as a Software Engineer from North Leeds for a London based prop-tech startup. Salary around £70k, 1.5/2 years experience.
I was living in London for about five to six years, but our rental came to an end. With the mania of last year, we were looking at £2000-£3000 per month for a very average, fairly cramped flat within zone 2 (or 40 mins to our offices). Despite my partner being a solicitor (£50k, but could have been closer to £100k now if we stayed), it felt like a really long road to be able to afford a home.
As much as I love London, my friends and the opportunities, we were killing ourselves for vague dream of eventually owning a very average house, or a good leasehold flat in 5-10 years time. It was incredibly demotivating. But maybe our standards are high.
We instead bought a huge five detached bedroom house. 15 minutes on the bus to the city, 5 minutes drive and your in the countryside, another 20 and you're in the Yorkshire Dales. David Llyods 5 minute drive away. Empty state of the art, free to use, public tennis courts 10 minutes walk. Massive park (used to be Europes largest urban park) right outside our door. Lots of local pubs and eateries within walking distance and more variety throughout Yorkshire a short drive away. Our monthly mortgage repayments are £1800 (£950 interest, the rest on capital). Quality of life is a no brainer. We live like royalty up here.
Even for start-ups the cost of office space is felt high in London. My company were looking at some really average 10-15 seater rooms, which were coming in at £10k per month. I'm sure office space in smaller cities is much cheaper, plus you probably get better employee retention as they aren't squeezed so hard by living circumstances (or poached as a result of needing more money).
It's just such a shame that 90%+ (guess) of innovative start ups are in the South East. It becomes self fulfilling as the labour market thickness is much greater there as you can rely on public transport (unlike the North), so more people go there, so more thickness, so easier to hire the team you need.
1) Create reliable public transport in other cities which is competitive to London. Get out of UK centrist mindset. 2) Change cultural perceptions about the rest of the country. Literally a few fictional TV shows or stories about young, techy people living a lifestyle where they all own their own houses, maybe turn an old industrial mill room into a little start-up HQ, go swimming in waterfalls in the Dales at the weekend and still have great nights out in Leeds is all that is needed to break the London fixation. To show people that there is in fact, life beyond London. 3) Create incentives to get some first movers to relocate. Like if a start up physically locates in a particular area (say Leeds city centre), the government will pay half the salaries for the first 20 employees for 3 years. Maybe even throw in some free accommodation in a co-living space to help people settle when they relocate (a bit like a uni experience). Make it financially attractive to founders to scale their businesses in different places.
I'm sure there's flaws in those arguments, but there are definitely things the UK can do to make it less depressing to start a business here! It just takes some will, and the government to have the balls to do something tangible outside of the Whitehall bubble.
No, our standards are too low. People just have this fatalist attitude, "oh yeah it's London, of course it's expensive". It's how they make you feel like it's you're just an uppity prole for wanting a better life. Fuck that. London was affordable within living memory, and it can be again. The problem is purely a lack of political will to allow enough good housing to be built.
>I'm sure there's flaws in those arguments, but there are definitely things the UK can do to make it less depressing to start a business here!
They're well intentioned, but they wouldn't fix the core problem because your proposals (aside from transport improvements) are all demand-side reforms, but the housing squeeze is almost purely supply-side. It's actually precisely this kind of tinkering that makes the problem worse -- all the lies they put out about "helping first-time buyers" with this or that tax cut or savings scheme -- it's all just musical chairs. It's still the same number of people competing for the same scarcity; it just a zero-sum adjustment of who wins and who loses. If you bring a bunch of tech workers to Leeds, Leeds will end up with a housing crisis, because the underlying legal/regulatory system is the same there as in London, and it encodes an inelastic supply curve into law. What those subsidies will actually do is transfer money (via taxation and debt issue) from productive areas of the economy into the bank accounts of incumbent rentiers, with renters and homebuyers as the delivery system. Prices will keep going up until the planning system is reformed to allow by-right construction, and that means depriving NIMBYs of their veto powers, which is untenable for the Tories. (And Labour will fuck it up in a different way, they're addicted to council housing)
now regarding how london centric the uk is ? I think it's due to the rampant classism in the uk. the whole "eeww the poors / plebs".
cz to me there's no reason for a bunch of startups to all be concentrated in london, oxford or cambridge.
seems the government wants to encourage regional growth based on remote work. but yeah they will need to incentivize startups to hire people not just in london but throughout the uk.
prop-tech, is that property tech ? with just 1 - 2 years experience that's a good salary.