Banking in uncertain times
bitsaboutmoney.com
bitsaboutmoney.com
Allowing the bank to pretend it has more assets than it actually has seems to be an invitation to hide risk. If they had to MTM their underwater bonds, they would would have been pushed to raise capital earlier, or they would have cut their losses earlier.
It should be straight up "I have these deposit liabilities, I have this book of assets, oops, my assets are down a bit, lets do something about it". Instead of "I'm gonna run the gauntlet and hope the business survives until these bonds come in".
The Basel accords are supposed to establish a risk-oriented way of measuring and controlling capital risk limits across asset classes. SVB and other regional banks fought heavily against being subject to this kind of oversight. I think it makes more sense to rework Basel 4 based on this failure rather than change the accounting standards.
Because at maturity, the bank gets back its money. So it is perfectly valid to say "in ten years, this $100m bond is worth $100m...and I intend to hold it for ten years, so it's worth $100m [equivalent] today". The "I intend to hold it" is the relevant part of the valuation, though.
Yup, and definitely anticipate there will be major new regulations in this area. A huge part of SVB's book of bonds were categorized as "Hold to Maturity". And, legally, if you mark bonds as HTM, you are not allowed to hedge against their interest rate risk. Basically, the regulations say that if you're hedging against interest rate risk, you don't really intend to hold to maturity, so you need to put them in the "Available for Sale" category.
The fact that SVB had such a huge book of bonds at paltry rates with no/minimal hedging is just awful risk management.
This seems like an important point that I haven’t seen mentioned elsewhere. Lots of folks have been like “these people are morons they didn’t hedge their crappy bonds.” Can you write more about this?
But it's not just that they didn't hedge their interest rate risk, it's also that they assumed that their deposit base would continue to stay the same or grow. The problem is that their highly correlated deposit base of tech startups actually all needed to take their money out at the same time when they couldn't get additional funding.
Thus, it's important to understand that banks themselves make the choice of whether a bond goes into the "held to maturity" or "available for sale" bucket. I'm not a bank compliance officer so I don't know the rules about how much they're allowed to put in each bucket, but one problem was that SVB incorrectly estimated how much liquidity they would need because they didn't plan for the risk of their deposits all needing to be drawn down simultaneously.
It already happened. The new regulation is that the Fed now has a liquidity backstop for banks holding this asset class, using cash loans with a set maximum term against the par value.
Apparently the Fed decided “if we treat it this way for capital adequacy, and we provide liquidity backstops for banks for other asset classes based on how they are valued for capital adequacy, maybe we should do the same thing here, since otherwise adequate capital can easily and suddenly become inadequate.”
But that valuation model is not perfectly valid. It's only partially valid under limited scenarios.
As many comments have already pointed out, the issue is the bank has customers with demand deposits. The customers can demand withdrawal of their money anytime -- without advanced notice. In other words, SVB is not a hedge fund that has the customers' deposits contractually locked up for 10 years.
Therefore, the "10 year bond held to maturity" assumption becomes invalid if the bank has to sell them prematurely at distressed discount prices -- to meet liquidity requirements of demand deposits.
You can't use value securities as "mark-to-intended-optimal-future" as an alternative to "mark-to-market" for purposes of insolvency risk calculations.
Its valid under the applicable regulations. However, it is one case where having adequate capital under those rules was not backstopped by available liquidity measures from the Fed.
One thing that seems to be generating less commentary is that, in the wake of the SVB collapse, and virtually simultaneously to the announcement of the systemic risk exception for SVB by the FDIC/Treasury/Fed, the Federal Reserve also announced a generally-available liquidity backstop program for this kind of hold-to-maturity assets.
> You can’t use value securities as “mark-to-intended-optimal-future” as an alternative to “mark-to-market” for purposes of insolvency risk calculations.
To the extent that refers to valuing the class of assets at issue at their par value, and to the extent that that was true last week, its not now.
But your deposit demand is unpredictable and must be modeled. I don’t think even Taleb would have the scenario of “on Friday, you’ll lose $40b of deposits.” The bank would have had to be sitting on billions of T-bills, which ain’t gonna happen.
It seems like every bank is a tweet away from destruction.
I think this is exactly correct, but I dont think that is the purpose and scenario reported on their financial statements. I think it is fine to report valuation in terms of "mark-to-solvent future", as long as the appropriate data is provided to enable insolvency risk calculations, and the "mark-to-solvent future" model is not presented or confused with a insolvency risk model.
If an investor does not understand how HTM assets are accounted per regulation, but they are accurately reported, confusing the models is an investor error, not a bank reporting error.
My understanding is that banks provide clear reporting, and are transparent with their HTM portfolio.
HTM securities are typically reported as separate noncurrent assets; they have an amortized cost on a company's financial statements.
I understand NPV. I'd edit my post to put "$100m equivalent [NPV] today" to makes it clearer what was meant by "equivalent", but it's too late, and that's precisely what I nodded to with "equivalent" -- no need for jargon to get the sense across.
> These considerations are precisely what marking to market captures.
Of course. And they are -- in theory -- exactly what GP seemed to be asking about. Valuing an instrument at its NPV (NOT MTM) is perfectly reasonable...as a starting point. GP was questioning that. As everyone has pointed out, and anyone who's bootstrapped a yield curve or traded bonds (I have) knows, there are a ton of nuance and caveats to this, but the GP was not dealing with those and they are not relevant to GP's primary point/question.
They are still worth $100m at maturity. $100m in ten years is (usually) worth less than $100m now. Do you really want to pretend that a ten year bond you purchased when inflation and the interest rate were near zero, is worth the same when inflation and the interest rate go up to say 10%? What about inflation of 100%? In nominal terms you’ll get back your capital, but in real terms you will get back only one thousandth.
To correctly value them now you need to calculate the NPV.
There are liquidity tests and SVB was probably failing them (which is probably why the FDIC was paying close attention to them), but that specific test you’ve heard about is not related.
Seems like that would allow an investor to see the state of the bank more clearly.
In the extreme - obviously you can't buy a call option and say 'I intend to hold this until it's $10 in the money, so it's actually worth (time-adjusted) $10'. What's the difference, besides probabilities of outcomes?
It’s really not, at least not mathematically. That intentions play a role is purely an artifact of regulations.
> not mathematically
Agreed. I don't think the GP was asking a mathematical question, so "relevant" meant "to explain why MTM accounting is not the only way".
So, can the bank claim it has $1,000 now?
- Enron used "creative" accounting and mark to something style procedures to create fake valuations
- They go out of business.
- Regulators say, "Hey! Now you need to mark to market always!"
- 2008 happens. Markets for things like CDOs and CDSs dry up almost overnight. At the very least most of the liquidity is gone and spreads get VERY big
- B/c of the above coupled with rules of "you need to mark to market" and "if value falls X% you have to sell", lots of selling happens in low liquidity environments and therefore prices fall more, the downward cycle begins
- Post 2008, people realize that "mark to market, always!" maybe isn't the best idea.
- I would imagine, that's why the Govt is saying "Ok, we will pretend that your assets are worth par value". They don't want to trigger the downward spiral.
It's also interesting to note that the Govt made money on many of the assets they bought in 2008 at well below par value. The implication is that those assets were undervalued when they bought them. Again, I would imagine this is a selling point of the idea "the par value is probably not that bad price to pay for these things now".
This is a _good_ thing. We don't want a house of cards that's so fragile as soon as it looks like it it's going to fall down, we pour glue all over it and prop it up with cardboard.
Assets need to fall in value so that the next guy can have a chance to thrive. Some bank collapsing is an opportunity for some of the younger folks to buy up a piece, or leave with a team and a book of customers.
We should have this happen regularly so that it isn't an earthquake each time.
Not getting triggered by a flash crash seems more robust, and getting triggered by it more fragile? Some of the time, anyway.
Isn’t this just a way of saying “nobody wants to pay what I want to pay me?”. Unless it’s actually worthless, there’s a buyer, you just may not like the price.
The liquidity on my used socks is gone and spreads are very BIG. Why yes, I won’t sell for less than what I paid for them new, but it’s the market that’s failed, not my insane pricing demands.
- within next 15 minutes
- within a year
Each time frame will definitely result in different price. All of them will be what market was willing to pay, but prices are somehow still different.
Forced sell does have an impact.
Finance is an imaginary staircase that only works until we look down and freak out. We don't document the robustness of the stairs because the stairs aren't real.
CDs are a thing. Unpopular because their rates sucked but that hasn’t always been the case.
Long-term loans become like short term loans closer to maturity. A mature bank should have a fair amount maturing every year, mortgages 24 or 23 or whatever years ago. Along with some early repayments or reissuances from people moving. Or 4 years ago for a vehicle, etc.
Or that the bank should be able to say "depositor X transferred $100 million to Chase, so we sent Chase a wire for $10 million and treasuries marked HTM worth $90 million" or something.
Yes, the Fed basically did this.
See the recently (Sunday) announced "Bank Term Funding Program", which basically says if banks hold securities from the Federal government, the Federal Reserve will accept it as collateral for a loan, the collateral valued at par.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/mone...
The Proposal is closer to the idea that you should be able to pay your cash debt with stock valued at your purchase price, and not at the current market price.
It would mean that a bank that owes another bank $100 could instead pay with Bond currently valued at $50, and then go out on the market and buy two identical new bonds with the money they saved.
The repo market is vast and generally massively liquid; trillions of dollars of funding per day.
Why? HTM bonds are not cash so they are not interchangeable. This is like if you were forced to accept a 10 year IOU in place of cash from your employer.
Banks exist at the whim of the gov't, it can require things for stability.
With your proposition, I think it would be a terrible idea and reduce stability. I don't see how letting Banks unload bad assets on each other does anything to help the situation. The Bad Assets just follow the customer wherever they go and some unlucky Bank get stuck with them when the customer converts their cash to something like stocks or buys a cheeseburger.
At best, you have just turned bonds into the same thing as cash, defeating the purpose of bonds to begin with. You buy a bond and are paid interest because you can't use it as cash.
At worst it would be chaos. Everyone buys bonds and holds them when the value is good. When the value is bad, everyone forces each other to take over their bad Investments.
What is the difference between what you are saying and just buying back the bonds before maturity?
Anyway, governments do usually have all kinds of lines of credit against bonds. And when there is a difference, it's for the benefit of the government.
Or the bank could have bought TIPS instead, I guess.
AFAIK, the thing the FDIC does is confiscate banks. Do they do anything else?
I agree with your main point.
You'd have to be careful with regulation around this, because what you might end up with is banks preferentially seeking assets for which there is not a liquid market so they can pretend they are worth more. That's... not an obvious improvement.
To some degree this makes sense, because if the maturity timelines and classification are correct the bank is only losing opportunity cost and inflation-adjusted dollars. Not actual dollars.
Meanwhile, if they need money from the fed it is offered against collateral based on mark-to-market value.
Have a read of Matt Levine:
The “let’s do something about it” could actually be business as usual. Look at the “deposit beta” in that article: when interest rates increase, mean rates banks pay on deposits increase less. So you can have a bank with a low mark-to-market value (assume all deposits liquidate at par and securities are sold at mid-market), but that ignores the value of the enterprise itself. Or you can project forward (to a specific time or times, not necessarily to the arbitrary maturity of each security), and you may well find that you end up with enough money at every point in the future to be quite comfortable, assuming your deposits stick around and continue to earn less than market interest.
Imagine you worked at a magic trading desk where you could issue a very special bond: you borrow money right now, and you pay a floating interest rate that is set at 1/2 the federal funds rate. This is a great deal, but it comes with a catch: the bond holder can call the debt at any time, which they will do on occasion at random but will do en masse if they don’t like you. Also, people can lend you money on these terms and you have to accept the deal. How would you make money on these? How would you account for them?
I agree that HTM accounting, done carelessly, can lead to wrong conclusions.
If a bank that makes a mortgage loan has to buy an interest rate swap that zeros out the interest rate risk on that loan, then the replicating portfolio is basically ... nothing ... right?
Banks have to be long duration risk to be useful.
Many of their assets aren't really fungible either. Mortgages are the canonical example: yes they can now be turned into MBS, but your local credit union just issues and holds them). The same is true of the commercial loan to the local stationary business. As far as I know those aren't bundleable into commercial paper securities. The debtors do the same: they don't treat their loan as having any market value at all beyond what it had when issued. House prices generally don't mark to market except in places with property tax assessment.
I was on BoD of a CU. About the only thing we didn't resell were loans which did not conform. The business was to originate, quickly resell, and do some more.
A bank is illiquid if its holdings require time to sell at "market price". Selling things like mortgages requires time because the buyer has to perform due diligence. If i have to sell mortgages right now, I'm going to be getting an awful price for them.
OTOH, i can sell treasuries in a fraction of a second at the ask price minus epsilon. It's not a liquidity problem, its an assets < liabilities problem, (as you clearly state, I'm just frustrated by the discussion here).
What is the alternative ? To have the banks trading on a millisecond basis so that the mark to market value of assets is positive ? What about the transaction fees ?
In the olde days that was the bottom drawer where you would stuff the losing tickets at the end of the day and hope that they were in the money tomorrow.
Finance crimes are low tech and have not evolved much as they don’t need to; there’s no policing.
Have a go at it, elites scream communism and the like, and rile up the 2nd Amendment fan boys, only to throw the ones that go over the line in jail to keep up appearances.
I’ve been noting and watching this same social ebb and flow since the 80s. The kids/teens then who soaked that reality up live it still today. IMO memory is why we had a mini-Reagan in Trump grow so popular.
The reason such things you point out are allowed is they’ve always been allowed from the perspective of those benefiting from them. If the system was stable and accountable to the masses, the phony winners rich off mathematical inference but too inept to keep themselves alive would of course be subject to a terrible regime should elites be required to pull on their boot straps; a figurative identity of being coddled is all they know!
As someone who has written ETL jobs for banks, this hits home.
This is probably the companion report to have on hand while reading:
https://www.fdic.gov/analysis/quarterly-banking-profile/inde...
In particular
* Chart 8. Number and Assets of Banks on the "Problem Bank List"
* (Chart 13.) Unrealized Gains (Losses) on Investment Securities
Sadly, "Results are published approximately 55 days after the end of each quarter (i.e., 55 days after March 31, June 30, September 30, and December 31)." So there's nothing super new. Bit it strikes me that Chart 13 is going bonkers on unrealized losses, but Chart 8 isn't quite matching the same (assets in problem banks, and # of problem banks is going down since rate hikes??).
Really wanna see that number for 2023Q1. But the quote
> about a quarter of all equity in the banking sector has been vaporized by one line item.
Struck me as pretty wild.
I'm not close enough to the banking system to judge the truth of it, but it was beautiful.
PS If you are on email lists, make sure to respond occasionally to the author. It's hard out there and they are shouting into the void. If a piece makes you smile/think/learn, tell them!
The history here is illuminating: (Jan 1 2023)
> "During the 1980s, savings rates climbed as high as 8%. Deregulation caused deposit interest rates to stay higher than financial institutions could sustainably support, which contributed to banking failures during that decade. In the 1990s, savings account rates decreased significantly, typically sitting between 4% and 5%. The 2000s kicked off with a recession, and savings rates fell to between 1% and 2%. Following the financial crisis of 2008, savings account interest rates fell to historic lows—below 0.25%."
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/savings/history-of-sa...
See also: https://twitter.com/biancoresearch
Very true
“due to bank executives wanting to harvest more of that pie for themselves.”
Eh, needlessly inflammatory and does not get at the real issue, although it is undoubtedly true that banks profited by not raising deposit interest rates. Banks could not safely raise deposit interest rates because large parts of those deposits were locked into investments in fixed-rate financial instruments.
Just wondering about this "desert" word, in context:
> I am very frustrated by political arguments about desert, which start with an enemies list and celebrate when the enemies suffer misfortune for their sins like using the banking system.
Anyone know what "desert" refers to?
"Just deserts" is a common phrase that uses it in the same way.
TWL (Today We Learned)
I always assumed it was one one of those odd manglings that gained traction, like irregardless.
> > > What does "desert" mean here
> A deserving [...] merit
Thanks. As a native speaker aware of "desert"'s multiple meanings and "just deserts", I think "merit", "deservedness", "appropriateness" would have been much clearer choices here. Perhaps the jarring note alone (of "desert" in this context) should have clued me in that an unusual usage was in play. Thanks again for the clarification.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/just-deserts-o...
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=desert
de·sert (dĭ-zûrt)
n.
1. (often "deserts") Something that is deserved or merited, especially a punishment: They got their just deserts when the scheme was finally uncovered.
2. The state or fact of deserving reward or punishment.
> DESERT, noun > > 1. A deserving; that which gives a right to reward or demands, or which renders liable to punishment; merit or demerit; that which entitles to a recompense of equal to the offense; good conferred, or evil done, which merits an equivalent return. A wise legislature will reward or punish men according to their deserts. > > 2. That which is deserved; reward or punishment merited. In a future life, every man will receive his desert
S/o to https://jsomers.net/blog/dictionary for opening my eyes here
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=they
[0] To the point that even people complaining about it use singular they in their complaints without realizing it.
> Take an exploding mortgage, the only way to finance homes in a dystopian alternate universe. It’s like the mortgages you are familiar with, except it is callable on demand by the bank. If you get the call and can’t repay the mortgage by the close of the day, you lose your house. What did you do wrong to make the mortgage explode? Literally nothing; exploding mortgages just explode sometimes. Keeps you on your toes.
It sounds to me like this could simply be solved with mortgage insurance. Granted, that insurance might be more expensive than it is now, but when a mortgage explodes you end up owning your house outright. Seems like not a bad deal. To reduce their risk (and consequently the cost of the insurance) the insurer would probably take on responsibility for finding alternate lending in the case of the loan being called, and the home owner would never hear about it until after the new lending was secured.
I'm sure there would be other problems, but it is not at all clear to me that those problems are worse than the ones we have now.
The reason “fractional reserves” keep creeping back in whenever you try to offer mortgages to more than just rich people is because fractional reserves are a way to invent money out of thin air, and you have to invent money out of thin air because the not-rich people buying the houses do not have the money to afford the house (but they can make that money if they focus on it for 10 or 20 or 30 years).
You often see people demand to know why banks are allowed to do fractional reserve banking. And this is the reason: it lets banks offer mortgages and credit cards to most of the public. Most people don’t have much money, but do have a lot of future earnings. Giving people access today to large chunks of their future earnings is a big social good but it fundamentally requires money to be invented from thin air, and that invented money is then gradually filled in with real money over time as the earnings come in.
So somebody somewhere has to be inventing trillions of dollars. This is risky. The capitalist way is to have private entities who profit when they manage their risk well, since that provides the strongest incentives for competency. And the democratic-capitalist way is to heavily regulate those private entities, eating some portion of their profit to provide some extra value to the public.
> An exploding mortgage wrapped in mortgage insurance has exactly the same shape as a conventional mortgage from a fractional reserve bank. The insurer would be doing something like “fractional reserve insurance”, i.e. only holding some fraction of the total insurance payout it’s liable for, and you’d have the same problems.
They are similar in that in both cases we have an institution that may not be able to pay its obligations. Those kinds of risks will always be present in society. However, I do think that the shape of these risks are different in important ways.
First, in the full-reserve scenario, no money is being invented out of thin air. Insurance is a risk pooling scheme, that is it.
Second In a fractional-reserve system, bank runs are self-fulfilling prophesies, because the game-theoretic optimal move in the event of a bank run (or a reported bank run) is to run on the bank! Because no other conditions are necessary for a bank run (other than a widespread belief that one is happening) a bank run can literally be memed into existence. I believe that, to a certain extent, the functioning of a fractional reserve system relies on the general public being ignorant of how it actually works.
I don't think insurance acts like that. You can't make an insurance claim just because other people are doing it: you have to actually have a qualifying event. It also doesn't seem reasonable to assume that calling of the mortgage loans would start spreading just because of a rumor - there would have to be some other cause.
> You often see people demand to know why banks are allowed to do fractional reserve banking. And this is the reason: it lets banks offer mortgages and credit cards to most of the public. Most people don’t have much money, but do have a lot of future earnings. Giving people access today to large chunks of their future earnings is a big social good but it fundamentally requires money to be invented from thin air, and that invented money is then gradually filled in with real money over time as the earnings come in.
I think lending is an essential economic service, but I don't think the easy credit enabled by inventing money is a good thing. At a macro level, there are arguably all sorts of market distortions caused by too much money chasing too little "stuff" to invest in. At a micro-level, easy credit plus inflation incentivizes bad habits of spending money for instant gratification and discourages prudent saving and financial preparedness for most people.a instant gratification of spending more money noa instant gratification of spending more money no
But… they aren’t real yet? They haven’t been realized. If held to maturity they will be paid back in full.
Which I know the author is fully aware of. So I don’t understand this point.
> I would suggest one has at least one backup financial institution. If one hypothetically does not, I would observe that opening bank accounts rounds to free. Thousands of perfectly good financial institutions exist.
Some people have investment accounts with brokerages like Fidelity or Schwab. Many brokerages (including the two mentioned) offer cash management accounts. They offer deposit insurance similar to FDIC and will give you tools similar to checking accounts. Debit cards, checks, bill pay, etc.
They can be excellent backup accounts that don’t add the additional overhead (however small) of yet another company to deal with.
> But… they aren’t real yet? [...] So I don’t understand this point.
If people withdraw their deposits, the bank will have to deliver the money somehow...by selling the assets that have lost money. So the point is that although, if nobody withdraws, the losses are survivable, if enough people withdraw, the losses are not survivable. As soon as depositors realise this situation, they will withdraw their money. So that's the problem.
If any number of HTM bonds are sold to cover withdrawals, then all of them must be revalued and losses realised on the whole lot.
Barring something extremely abnormal happening, aren't low-yield bonds seeing real losses already due to inflation?
Like it doesn't have to be the spot price we're talking about, aren't many of them toxic already and others expected to track there?
But bank deposits aren't in inflation adjusted dollars.
Banks run on nominal dollars, and SVB would have remained capitalized if withdrawals hadn't overwhelmed their ability to get ready cash, which caused them to sell at a loss, which spooked everyone, causing a run.
And whether the metric you care about is the real losses or the expected nominal value at maturity depends on whether inflation continues to raise. As this also suggests interest rates increase, you get hammered on both sides.
If you say you have $100 worth of bonds, this is accurate at all points of time you hold it. What you can buy with $100 may be changing from year to year.
* The Fed has control of quantity of money . No. The Fed controls the direction of interest rates via interest rate policy or simply put the Fed determines the price of money.
Yes, banks do "create" money. No, it is not out of thin air. It absolutely does come from deposits.
An example of how banks "create" money, is person A has $100. A deposits it. The bank lends that $100 to B. Now B has $100, but A also still thinks they have $100, even though they just have a number on a piece of paper.
They system goes from acting as if $100 exists, to acting as if $200 exists, but really there is only $100, and an IOU for $100.
That is what bank money "creation" is. It is not from thin air.
People get confused because "money", as in fiat currency, is also a Government IOU. But the above principle is true for gold, bitcoin, or any asset, and they wouldn't get mixed up the same way thinking banks create gold out of thin air.
It is a starkly different thing than how the Government creates money.
But then my eyes glazed over and I remembered that I am not proficient in this language. Presumably the following requirements do place some limits on how much money they can have created?
> A common equity tier 1 capital ratio of 4.5 percent.
> A tier 1 capital ratio of 6 percent.
> A total capital ratio of 8 percent.
> A leverage ratio of 4 percent.
If banks can loan more than they have by say borrowing the money at a lower rate than they lend it, that invalidates your basic premise of banks creating money. They wouldn't have created it, they would have borrowed it.
And nor does the balance sheet become inexplicably unbalanced. It issues bills, a liability, which will cancel out as an asset unless it sells them, or takes a value from it's balance sheet capital, or gets interbank funding (which still balances, because that's another bank's asset).
You're not wrong a bank can fund it's lending, indeed there's that often cited BoE paper all about it, but that funding doesn't come from thin air.
If you keep creating money out of thin air — which as per my admittedly naive understanding is equivalent to just printing money without giving back anything in return — wouldn't it ultimately lead to a collapse or a hyper inflation? Like it did in Venezuela a few years ago (???).
Why is the US seemingly immune to this kind of thing?
1) taxation destroys money.
2) new money can be absorbed by economic growth. Imagine you have $100 in an economy and 100 apples. $100 is added, so there’s $200/100 apples. Inflation might occur. But if you make 100 more apples, so there’s $200/200 apples, the ratio of money to goods didn’t change, and you wouldn’t get inflation. That’s an extremely contrived example, but it gets the point across.
Considering both of those factors, I hope it’s understandable that printing money doesn’t necessarily cause inflation.
Central banks don't fix the price of apples. They simply make it possible/easier for cultivators of apples to obtain capital to invest in more machines or developing new cultivars of apples. The alternative is that cultivators have to try to find the capital by borrowing more expensively from a fixed supply of stored wealth. From the point of view of people holding the stored wealth, the arms race for better products at lower prices becomes a zero sum game where it's a winning move not to just hold onto the cash and let other people take the risks. Unsurprisingly, this does not benefit consumers, or the productive.
A company wants some money to fund business expansion. So it borrows $1m with a promise to pay $1.06m back, which it can fund because it has customers. The bank in turn can fund this by borrowing $1m and promising to pay back $1.03m (when lending activity increases this money comes from the Fed, albeit normally indirectly via its bond market activity). It's not free money for the business: if they don't sell enough stuff they go bankrupt. It's not free money for the bank: if enough of it's customers don't pay they also get bankrupt. So the money created is based on market participants believing that the additional money will result in additional economic activity
Additionally, you've got the Fed actively intervening on a day-to-day basis to fix that base interest rate for borrowing and on a month-to-month basis to increase it if it thinks people are borrowing too much and prices are going up too fast
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_...
Not trying to be a low-effort reply but any Economy 101 textbook will theorize that it's impossible. Practically, the world is too dependent on the USD in one way or another. If they try to break loose, they might get confronted with those military expenditures which is a good enough incentive to keep using USD as a global reserve currency.
The difference between Venezuela and any relatively stable country (the US is one of many, some of which have tiny armies and pacifist foreign policies) isn't military spending or reserve currency status, it's that the money in the country with the stable currency is created as a debt which the borrower and bank has to be repay in future (with the central bank also intervening if it thinks too many borrowers and banks are taking on debts) whereas the money in places like Venezuela is being created to pay off debts.
And when do you expect this debt to be repaid back? If you cycle all the way back, at some point the money is created out of thin air backed by nothing but believe that the US will not default. It's not ignorance but reality that as long as you are the strongest arm in the room nobody is going to challenge you into paying back your debts. Yes, on paper it's all economically sound and "basic accounting" but the reality of the situation is that if America would not be able to defend its position as "stable country", nobody would accept their debt denoted in the currency they create themselves.
This is not to say that hyper inflation isnt a severe risk, it is. it’s to say that the mechanisms through which it’s created or avoided are not well understood nor proven.
Unless you're talking about literal printing press operations, "the fed tries to tweak the money supply to control inflation as one of its dual mandates" seems like an absolute correct, if simple, explanation of why we don't have hyperinflation.
(I know tone is hard to convey. I am serious about learning if I have a misunderstanding)
[1] https://www.stlouisfed.org/on-the-economy/2018/july/federal-...
https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reservereq.htm
https://positivemoney.org/how-money-%20works/how-banks-%20cr...
Ironically, US’s down fall may be its own failure to believe itself.
To add, the vast amount of money that's circulating is created by banks. As I keep harping, refer to this article by BoE for details.
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/m...
This is likely the most important part. FED, Treasury and administration bought some time, but what happens after one year is anyone's guess.
If the banks listen and take the beating, invest more equity and re-adjust their banking practices to handle interest rate risk, nothing exciting happens.
If the banks don't heed the klaxon call, they will likely get wiped to zero and cease to be owners of banks anymore(because the FDIC will take the bank over and say enough). Depositors/customers of the banks will probably be just fine though. The FDIC will either find a new set of owners or dissolve it and move customers to new banks that did take the beating.
I imagine some idiots will try and call the bluff, get wiped to zero and hopefully learn something in the process, if only to not be a bank owner anymore.
Do you think this is a way for FED to raise the rates further despite the interest risk you mentioned since failure of SVB put next interest hike into question[1]?
edited for clarity
[1]https://www.marketwatch.com/story/bank-fallout-undermines-fe...
Unless the economy really goes bonkers stupid and crashes hard, I really don't see them lowering rates anytime this year and maybe not next.
A few banks that were arguably stupid crashing and burning? Well that's part of the expected cost of fighting inflation.
> Regulators then heard the numbers, did a bit of modeling in Excel, and then went into wartime execution mode. Regulators have, of course, not declared this war, because it is a war on the public’s perception of reality, and to declare war is to surrender.
SO MUCH of this drama is really a war on perception more than anything else. Banks being "underwater" on 10 year treasuries is only a problem *if everyone thinks its a problem* and if everyone just goes about their daily business ignoring this story, then after 10 years all the bonds mature and nobody is the wiser.
Is anyone able to provide more context and clarify how significant these losses are to the US banking system beyond what’s covered in the article?
[1] https://www.fdic.gov/news/speeches/2023/spfeb2823.html?ref=b...
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EDIT: For the unfamiliar, OP article’s author is a notable user on HN:
In 2023 the situation isn't necessarily worse, but it is certainly different. Asset prices seem relatively well-understood, in that their declines are a straightforward function of interest rates as opposed to an uncertain function of credit losses. Bank leverage is less than in 2008 as a result of regulation.
If the situation in 2008 was "some banks are _super_ insolvent, and it's hard to tell which ones", in 2023 it seems to be "some banks are mildly insolvent, and it's fairly clear which ones". A mildly insolvent bank can probably stay afloat as long as it continues to have access to capital, which the Fed is giving them. But if people start withdrawing their deposits from one of the mildly insolvent banks, it will become increasingly difficult for that bank to dig out of even a small solvency hole, so there's still some uncertainty as to whether the Fed lifeline is enough to save them.
they can be an issue if, say, all your depositors decide to make huge withdrawals and the bank's immediate cash needs balloon, or if they have specific payments they need to make in the near term which would force those "available for sale" securities to be actually sold
none of this is an inevitable risk. there are ways to hedge against rising rates. the current rate hikes, although historic in their pace, have also long been anticipated by the market and telegraphed by the Fed. that bank administrators failed to plan accordingly is honestly baffling
Without additional context, seems like wishful thinking to believe such losses will ever be recovered. In fact, while I might be wrong, those unrealized losses assume current market conditions; meaning they do not represent the actual total assets at potentially at risk; might be wrong about this.
Am I missing something?
Bonds have the added benefit of a guaranteed principal at maturity. So if you buy a bond with $100 face value, it will pay that to you at maturity plus some coupon (say, 4%) between now and then. For the sake of simplicity, let's assume the bond was issued at par (meaning not at a discount or premium), so you paid $100 for that $100 face value
As time goes by and interests rate fluctuate, the price of that bond in the open market will also vary. When interest rates go up, prices go down and yields go up, because investors demand a greater return (higher yield) and since the "4%" is hardcoded into the bond, the only way to give additional yield is by trading your otherwise $100 bond for, say, $98.
Think about three time frames:
Year 0: I buy a new-issue $100 bond paying 1.5% interest for $100. I will receive $1.50 every year for 5 years and then get $100 back.
Year 3: Interest rates have increased pretty dramatically, so 2-year bonds are now paying 3% interest. So for someone 'shopping' for a bond that matures in 2 more years, they can buy a new-issue one paying 3% or they could buy my 5-year with 2-years remaining that is only paying 1.5%. Obviously they would buy the new-issue unless I offer a substantial price discount. So if I "mark to market" my bond, I would have to sell it for something like $85 to be equivalent to the new-issue debt. My bond is still paying 1.5% and will still pay $100 when it matures, but it's much less valuable since the interest stream is smaller. I don't sell my bond because I don't want to take the loss.
Year 5: My bond matures and I receive $100 along with the final interest payment.
We're talking about step 2 above -- the losses are only realized if you sell the instrument, so you don't need to "recover" any losses, the underlying debt is still as likely to pay out as they were before, it's just a debt maturity question.
The problem is that might be a 20% gain 10 years from now, so nobody will be willing to buy that bond off of you for the price you paid since they can 40% on new 10 year bonds.
The only time a bond price decline is concerning is if you have to sell it rather than holding to maturity.
Yes. As bonds get closer to their maturity date, the discount one would have to sell them at to garner a higher prevailing interest rate goes away. That is, the nominal loss "naturally" goes away over time. The article kind of explains this.
The truth is roughly that both sides are right, and the sum of their claims is much weirder than either subset.
The actual instrument in question is a little tough to get your head around. The first part is the basic bond mechanism: you give the government a thousand bucks, and ten years later they give you back that thousand dollars (guaranteed: they can print money so they will never default, only risk is they have to print so much money to pay you back that the economy explodes, and everyone has bigger problems at that point). Why would you do this? You wouldn’t, there is no upside, you only get back what you put in and it’ll be worth a little less because of inflation by then as well. Nobody does it, so right now what we have is not a real financial instrument.
So let’s make a first attempt at offering some upside: if you let them hold a thousand bucks for ten years, they’ll give you 10 bucks twice a year. Now you’ll take it - unless you think you can make more than 20 dollars out of your 1000 dollars each year by putting it somewhere else. What controls how much you can make on your 1000 dollars elsewhere? A lot of factors that all ultimately rest on the interest rate. Okay, so the government can’t just offer a flat 10 bucks twice a month, they have to offer something competitive with the current interest rate. But there’s the kicker: the current interest rate. Once you buy the bond, that amount is fixed, even if the interest rate later changes.
If the interest rates go up after you buy a bond, next years bonds will be offering higher per-year payments, so your bonds are inferior by comparison (they pay the same at the end, but less on the way, and they’ve already paid out some of the payments to you) and thus are worth a lot less. This is important because aside from holding them you can also sell them to someone else for any price you agree on, and whoever buys them from you gets the rest of the yearly payments and the final payout instead of you. They’re a hard thing to sell if interest rates have gone up, because you’re offering 20 bucks a year for five years while the government is offering 50 bucks a year for 10 years.
So: the money you get back eventually is worth less than when you handed it over because of inflation, but you’re getting small payments all along the way based on the interest rate at the time of the agreement. You care about interest and about inflation.
We have to stop for a moment and talk about interest rates and inflation. It is generally accepted that an increase in interest rates will cause a decrease in inflation a few years later. Confusingly, people will also say that interest rates move in the same direction as inflation but with a lag. It’s not that confusing though:
an increase in inflation at time t=0…
…will cause an increase in interest rates at time t=1…
…which will cause a decrease in inflation at time t=2…
(…which will cause a decrease in interest rates at time t=3…)
(…which will cause an increase in inflation at time t=4, and we’re back to step 1)
And so the cycle goes.
So in effect, you’re betting on this tension between interest and inflation resolving in your favor. In practice I believe the effect of inflation is smaller than the interest payments, so it’s also generally believed you always have a way out of the bet: just hold for the full ten years and the interest payments over that time will more than cover the inflation loss.
Except you can’t just hold on to the bet, because you’re a bank, and that thousand dollars you gave to the government is not your thousand dollars - it is some customer’s deposit, and they might want it back. So you better plan to have another thousand dollars somewhere else that you can give that customer, because the only way you can turn this bond back into money before the 10 years is up is selling it. And as mentioned before, if interest rates have recently gone up, your bond is not going to sell for anywhere close to breaking even.
That’s what that unrealized loss figure of 600 billion is: if you sold them for market value today, how much would you lose? As pointed out in the article, because interest rates were extremely low when these bonds were made, their yearly payout is very low. Because interest rates have risen rapidly, new bonds have much higher yearly payouts. And because interest rates have risen recently, we’re still in the lag period before inflation falls, so the final payout is also worth less (once again, I believe the effect of inflation differential is smaller here, and the price is I think mostly driven by the interest rate differential).
Concretely, right now, you could probably sell those bonds for no more than 75 cents on the dollar, and likely closer to 65 cents. If the Fed keeps raising interest rates like they’re doing now until the end of the current Presidential term (where someone else will get to tell the Fed what to do), we might get below 50 cents on the dollar, or even lower.
Banks bought 2 trillion dollars of an asset and right now that asset is only worth 1.4 trillion. That is, objectively, a huge loss. Point to the busters.
…But if we just hold the asset long enough, it is worth about 2 trillion again. Point to the holders, and this is why we call them “unrealized” losses.
…But if we can’t hold the asset (because, say, everyone withdraws at the same time), we have to sell at the current market rate, and those losses are forced to be realized. Point once more to the busters.
…But if we can rely on the FDIC or the government or other banks to step in and cover our withdrawals, we aren’t forced to sell - we can hold until the value returns, and pay back the FDIC or the government or the other banks then. Point once more to the holders.
And so it goes, back and forth between the busters and the holders. Who is right? In aggregate it’s both and neither, but at specific times for specific banks it could very visibly be one or the other. No wonder it’s so confusing!
There’s a lot more of these back and forths at every level that further complicate things. The government is jacking up interest rates so they’re causing the pressure… but banks know this dynamic exists and didn’t prepare for it so they made themselves vulnerable to this pressure… but the government regulations make these investments much more attractive to banks (very roughly: regulations say you only have to put up 0-20% of the value of these investments as collateral, for other investments it could be 100% or even 400% collateral) so the government pushed the banks in this direction… and so this cycle goes, too.
The fundamental dynamic is these bonds were an easy investment that turned into a giant Sword of Damocles over your head that’s growing by the day. In ten years you can step out from under the Sword, but any day now your depositors might panic and drop it on you, but if they do drop it the government might catch it before it kills you.
Thus, finally, some insight into the title of the post: very uncertain times indeed.
Without a fractional reserve system, the liquidity that drives all economic activity grinds to a halt as everyone fights over the few remaining real dollars rather than managing their deployed capital.
Banks basically act to multiply the amount of money in the world today by creating promises about the future that act as a bridge that moves money from the future into the present. That money then flows into restaurants, dog walkers, software engineers, etc... Inflation is kept in check b/c the promises force the money to be paid back to the bank via monthly loan repayments.
Banks that only hold short term reserves or cash equivalents like Brex don't act as this multiplier. Going forward it's likely small banks will move towards this model as only the big banks that are too big to fail (b/c they are necessary as multipliers) can afford to take on the risk of longer term investments or creating loans.
But that doesn't really provide that much interest to depositors, in this age of loose money supply.
So there are more exotic functions that "investment" banks fiddle with. Ie trading on the stock market (regulated betting) buying companies, and trading on futures and other pure bets.
The problem is that banks are bigger, and have more depositors. So when one pops, other go because they are all doing the same shady shit to make profit.
In the UK there are still a few building societies that offer traditional, boring, consumer banking and mortgages. But they are now large national behemoths.
But to your point, Brex is a payment manager/facilitator. Its not really offering banking, its more a service to manage expenditure. This might seem like pedantry, but its different enough to make the point.
To your point about risky investments, like stocks, I agree that that's very sketchy. But I think even very prudent banks that don't invest in stocks etc still take on a lot of risk, like we see with the bank collapses caused by the high interest rates these days.
Uh, no. That's just nonsense. If you lend money to a borrower who defaults, you immediately lose your principal and future interest, subject to whatever recovery rate you achieve. It's an actual, realized loss.
Banks have masses of unrealized losses on their long-dated Treasury holdings, but if you hold those bonds to maturity, you're going to get your principal and your interest.
It should be pretty clear those are Not The Same. The clue is in the word "realized", right?
Currently there isn't because you are forced to invest if you want to be able to transact. As a matter of fact the figure you see in your checking account is expressed in dollars but that is false because those are IOUs from the bank exressed in dollars. You are defacto investing in the loan portfolio of your commercial bank.
It's a very different thing.
Maybe CBDC will allow all of us to 'bank with the Fed' so we will know for sure that those dollars are real and not being put to work in any way , shape or form.
While it's certainly useful to think about prices as signals that, "embed an interest rate derivative", it seems a stretch to claim every single one of those derivatives is perfectly negatively correlated with interest rate changes.
[EDIT: change "interest price" to "interest rate"]
It’s a necessary condition of the discounted cash flow asset pricing model.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discounted_cash_flow?wprov=sft...
Monetary policy could be performed by a couple of NAND gates if it were genuinely the case that any interest rates rise would necessarily lower the price of everything.
The opposite occurs when interest rates go up, people can no longer borrow enough to pay asking prices, demand falls and prices fall to meet demand.
There are obviously other factors involved but the basic relationship holds.
Your second argument is that it would be trivial to stop and reverse inflation if it were true, but even if it were true it would not be so easy. The way we measure inflation is based on the prices paid for goods and services of consumer goods. If the only change from an interest rate hike were on asset prices, then this doesn't directly impact prices of consumer goods.
As trivial as it sounds it is exactly the premise with which fed operates. Their mandate is price stability (~2% inflation) with low unemployment rate. And interest rate is a key lever they have. So yes they are going to keep rising rates until they see inflation come down to around 2%. They harp on this at every FOMC meeting[1]. They believe raising rates to around 4.75% will bring down inflation to 2%.
Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/newsevents/pressreleases/mone...
Of course there are instruments like interest rate derivatives where you can make money when rates rise, but he's talking about ordinary assets like bonds and equities.
The reason all prices do indeed embed an interest rate is that all future cash flows need to be valued somehow, and those values go down as interest rates go up. So your equity that (somehow) is guaranteed to pay 10c next year is worth less if interest rates go up, just like if it were a bond.
The real reason interest rates are rising is to kill the infant unionization trend in its crib. SVB is just collateral damage.
How could you conclude that an interest rate hikes wouldn't reduce all asset prices?
Well, that is the strategy of the Fed. Raise interest rates when we experience too much inflation.
So for individual people, this affects... maybe 5%. It certainly affects small companies, but those are entities that we, as a society, expect to have good financial advisors. (It turns out that many of them do not.)
Every bank and credit union I've ever dealt with has prominently placed the FDIC or NCUA insurance terms on their paperwork, website and physical doors. When you sign up for an account with a brokerage/bank, they are always explicit about what accounts, if any, are protected savings and which are unprotected investment accounts.
If you're an owner and you need over 250k to be liquid on daily to weekly timescales, but hiring a three people to manage manage your bank accounts sounds unaffordable, you should find a 3rd party that can do that "cash sweep" thing for you.
Beyond 3 years it makes sense to spread it among Index fund, gold ETF etc., depending on your need, risk appetite etc., But then we are venturing into "investment" and not "safe keeping".
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/marketable-securities/treasur...
On your own account, once you reach $250k in cash (not pensions or home equity etc) you're basically in the financial 1% and you're sort of expected to be either sophisticated or speak to a "wealth management" firm.
As a business it's more complicated in the intermediate zone before you can hire a Treasury Officer to deal with this, which is basically patio11's argument.
Just don’t exceed the insured amount in a single bank, and if you do need to have more than $250k in cash… either open a second account at a different bank or donate it.
Putting money in the stock market is not the answer for everyone and their savings.
So if you have $1M parked in one account then you're at risk. $250K parked in 4 accounts caries zero risk.
Joint accounts are covered at 500k
When a revocable trust owner names five or fewer beneficiaries, the owner's trust deposits are insured up to $250,000 for each unique beneficiary
So 4 people = $1m
https://www.fdic.gov/resources/deposit-insurance/brochures/i...
> Society depends on this mismatch existing. It must exist somewhere. The alternative is a much poorer and riskier world, which includes dystopian instruments that are so obviously bad you’d have to invent names for them.
I guess I'll dispute this. It is useful that this mismatch exists, since it (1) lowers the cost of long-term borrowing for mortgagors, businesses, and governments and (2) lowers the (direct and/or opportunity) cost of holding cash. But I don't think society is dependent on this mismatch, and I don't think the alternative would be anywhere near as bleak as Patrick suggests.
If bank regulators changed capital requirements to require banks to fully back deposits with cash equivalents, long-term borrowing would be a lot more expensive, but the market would still clear. There's already plenty of demand for safe long-term debt, and that demand would only increase as long-term interest rates went up. E.g., if checking accounts paid -2% interest and CDs paid 10%, lenders would put less money in checking and more in CDs, even if it meant they would have to sell the CD at a discount if they needed liquidity.
Of course, the US government will take any and every opportunity it can get to indirectly subsidize mortgages, so this is pretty moot in practice.
If I don't trust that the bank can give me the money, it doesn't matter if it's in a CD or checking account, I'm going to pull it out (screw the gains) and the liquidity problem still exists. The extra months/year of interest don't stop a bank run.
This is why I think this can really only be solved by government and regulation. Government regulation on the quality of investments to make sure that they're really worth X% long term. If there is a bank run, government needs to step in with the government liquidity, and say "customer gets their money, we get your assets". Of course, brokering an auction for these amongst other banks is the preferred approach.
There should be a fairly free market around what leverage banks are willing to take on as long as the investments that back it are regulated and solid. If a company wants to expose their shareholders to risk by keeping high levels of leverage, that's their problem, but you can't punish depositors for the mistakes of the bank. Not saying we shouldn't have any regulations in this space, but as long as mistakes impact shareholders and not depositors or taxpayers, I think everyone is happy.
Why would any bank look at SVB and NOT think "oh, time to take more risk for more profit; the government will prop up the FDIC limit if we fail anyway". Saying that taxpayers won't pay for this is a joke too. The burden of filling the insurance gap won't come out of the pocket of other banks or their shareholders. Even though the FDIC receives no federal funding on paper, they seem to be fully invested in treasury securities and can borrow directly from the treasury, against rates not available to the common Joe. It's a perverse relation which the taxpayer contributes to.
> The regulators’ response to SVB — guaranteeing all depositors, but also the Fed’s Bank Term Funding Program to finance other banks’ bond portfolios at par[7] — increases the value of other banks’ optionality, which encourages them to take more risk, because their deposits are safer. (I suppose this is the real moral hazard concern.) And so there should be more regulatory and supervisory changes to tamp down the other banks’ risks.
> [...]
> [T]he post-SVB actions have made bank deposits a lot safer, which is a nice windfall for the shareholders of every other regional bank that has a lot of losses on held-to-maturity securities. And so in exchange for that windfall the regulators should regulate those banks much more strictly, which will make them actually safer (and reduce the government’s exposure to their risks), but will also reduce their profitability.
This makes zero difference to the bank. The bank doesn't get saved by the FDIC limit, as you know. What happens after the bank fails - whether the depositors are made whole or not - is immaterial to the people who owned the bank, who now see their asset (the bank) worth $0.
If you want to make a moral hazard argument with respect to the FDIC, you'd have to make it with respect to the actions of depositors.
Also, WRT the $250k limit, that's the minimum they will guarantee. They have always tried, and in recent decades always succeeded, in making depositors whole one way or another, usually without spending much (if anything) from their insurance fund. The $250k is the worst case scenario.
Hyperbole yes, but the moral hazard seems to be with the bank (and the investors therein), not the depositors or their actions. Or I misunderstood you.
I can kind of assume what your misunderstanding is, but it's not completely clear. I think you are assuming that if the deposits are protected, the bank gets to keep the deposits and continue running. This isn't how it works, though. As soon as the bank becomes insolvent (loses its bet on red), the bank is shut down and its shareholders are wiped out. The FDIC sets up a new, government run bank to hold and guarantee the deposits, and then tries to find another bank to sell the failed bank's deposits and loans. Right now there is no Silicon Valley Bank. If you had deposits there, they are now held by Silicon Valley Bridge Bank, N.A, which is a new bank operated by the FDIC.
Because they don’t want the stock to go to 0?
I think most businesses and investors would not want that.
We’ve seen bank stocks drop, it is in those banks interest to show they’re not taking chances like SBV.
And so that is the reason for the limit. It gets bumped up every few years, partially due to inflation and partially due to the increasing wealth of the upper middle class and retirees, who the insurance fund is primarily aimed at motivating. It would not be effective in its aims if “local elites” at the typical community bank felt like they still shouldered run risk, and local elites in 2023 are substantially wealthier than they were in 1945.
As to why it doesn't introduce more risk, it very well could. So far they have either slowed down a train wreck or prevented one. Bank issues in the last week have seemed more tied to depositors getting spooked and withdrawing or transferring money, the real question is whether other banks are so full of unrealized losses that the shift from a market depositing $5T in newly printed money to an economy spending more than it earns will break the banks.
The second is a third or fourth order bailout of banks. By moving the goal posts on depositors responsibilities to “none if you are a powerful lobby”, risky banks no longer have the second most important limit on their riskiness (depositors managing their own risk and due diligence). That leaves only the equity holders to do the diligence.
I think the reason people aren’t calling it a bailout is that it puts all the pressure on equity. Which maybe what we as a society wants but it’s certainly a big change to the existing regime.
Moody's gave SVB an A rating until they were already collapsing. The State of California said SVB was financially sound until March 8.
And the problem is, even if it were possible to know the health of a bank as a depositor, a sound bank that people come to believe may be unsound collapses in a bank run the instant that the realization occurs, so you would lose your money anyway even though the bank was sound when you first deposited unless you got in early on the run.
This is a big part of the problem in tech apparently. It _is_ a big change and in other industries it is very common for large cash holders to do normal due diligence on their banks and to have technology and procedures to mitigate the counterparty risk.
The flocking concern was literally cited as one of the problems with “too big to fail” in 2008 and it happened! Lots of corporate & governmental treasurers took that as a clue to move to larger banks.
Bank runs start because someone notices and publishes that a bank is insolvent, not the other way around. In this case it was because a bunch of supposedly sophisticated actors realized it too late.
The desperation of that action speaks volumes about what they faced (and we don't know). Having no limits for FDIC will stem panic in the short term at the cost of (practically guaranteed) mid and long term hazard that this decision will directly engender.
That's not the correct analysis. It was a liquidity crunch, not a "hole" in the sense of a debt. In some sense the bank always had the assets, just not in a form they could pay out as a withdrawal. So when everyone wanted out at once they ran out of cash and got seized by the FDIC.
That's not to say there won't be any losses at all. There likely will as the successor bank liquifies holdings and makes whole the folks who want out. And yes: those losses are (as reported currently) not going to be borne by depositors at all. Currently the idea is that they'll be rolled into fees on other banks, which is part of the FDIC insurance regime. So we all collectively pay for it, just not via taxes per se.
However, the FDIC limit is REALLY low in today's terms. $250k limit was set in 2010. The money stock has been printed 143% more since 2010. To me that is about $607k in today's dollars.
That’s not how inflation works.
If we didn't have a system which deliberately amplifies catchy headlines such as "banks are failing" wouldn't that bank run be avoided ?
But I find 2 parts of it troubling. First ‘patio11 seems to have bought into the goalpost movement around depositor obligations in the banking regime. It maybe that as a society we don’t want any depositors, no matter how big, to have no concern about counterparty risk (or maybe move the bar higher) but that’s not the assumption built into the system now and it’s not obvious on its face or in the essay that it should change.
Second, the appeal to FBO operators falls flat. Large custodial firms have existed for decades and being able to provide a beneficiary list on the weekend is something they build and staffed for. That it is difficult for other technology firms to do so says more about the choices those firms are making than an intrinsic problem with the existing system.
Yeah, this is a good quote, and I find it unbelievable that a bank goes from financially healthy one day to insolvent the next. I also find it far more discomforting than the alternative (that it was financially unhealthy for a while, and many other banks are as well). Is this really the 'official' record?
This is why the FDIC was formed: to stop rumors causing bank runs. Since the average person knows their deposits are insured, your money isn't going anywhere, so theirs no need to do a bank run.
What failed here is that a group of uninsured depositors did an old fashion bank run. That's why the FDIC announced early that everything was covered: to very clearly telegraph that the bank run was unnecessary, and you shouldn't be doing them.
Oh, there was so much stuff that happened.
You had a bank where the wide majority of the deposits were uninsured. That's quite a major problem.
But then, it doubles down in that those deposits were largely correlated. They increased all together, and decreased all together.
The bank then made sure to double down on that correlation and favor lending to people whose income were highly correlated with their deposits.
Then, when they got a highly correlated amount of deposits, they decided that the risk of a highly correlated change on their funds was low, and optimized for long-term profits instead of safety. (Why? I still don't fully understand this. I was expecting to see one of those "tails we win, heads you lose" games banks like to play, but from what people say, looks like bare incompetence was a very important factor here.)
Then they use corruption... ops, sorry, lobbying to make sure the government doesn't stop them from betting against their deposits and debit repayment being correlated.
And finally, they got all so surprised by a highly correlation stop on deposits (and probably repayments) when withdraws kept going.
That one bank failure was quite a feat, and it's completely unfair to blame it on a bank run.
Now, in the case of the Big 4 being run on, they are too big to fail so the Fed would just extend them unlimited funds (probably).
I don’t see why a 20% reserve requirement isn’t viable.
https://dfpi.ca.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/337/2023/03/DFP...
Wait, 3? I thought it was only 2 (SVB and Signature Bank).
So it makes no difference to me if the bank sector crashes or not. To the degree I care about sectors at all, I'm more likely to be concerned about railroad stocks (would interfere with goods) or automobiles, even though I don't own any any more (employ a lot of people).
But banks specifically are no longer that important. The US federal government now backstops all deposits, as they have (for almost a century) underwritten all residential mortgages. I don't think that's a bad thing at all; overwhelmingly most people's interaction with the bank is a current account (checking/savings); and overwhelmingly most peoples' liquidity is less than the FDIC limit, not that that limit may be meaningful any more. The development of the FDIC was a crucial and early product of the New Deal and stabilized the system significantly. Thus, for this crucial function, I couldn't care less if banks themselves succeed or fail. Like food safety, judging the risk profile of a deposit taking institution is beyond the capability of most people to evaluate.
But what about the residual functions of banks? They are mostly unbundled at this point. You don't need to get a credit card from your bank and most people carry such cards that don't come from their bank. In consumer loans (mortgages and small business loans) a local bank arguably knows the local market better than a megabank, and credit unions demonstrate this. But these days banks operate more like mortgage origination companies since the mortgages are bundled into MBSs. That's a function that need not be provided by banks at all! Instead have them be sold by brokerages the way insurance is sold. Safe deposit boxes, to the point they still exist, are outside banks these days. And so on.
Of course there are jobs, but retail banks only employ a couple of million in the US (about 20% of the whole financial sector, which is smaller than manufacturing, constuction, and other fields). An unbundling as I'm talking about would probably not affect employment much.
So yes, I don't care much about the banking sector at all.
I see no reason why bank deposits can be fully backed, and ppl who choose to can buy into bonds funds separately. For example, only ~6% of gov bonds are held by banks: https://www.statista.com/statistics/201881/holders-of-the-us...
From https://home.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/...
2023-03-14: 10Y: 3.64
2021-03-12: 10Y: 1.64
2019-03-14: 10Y: 2.63
2017-03-14: 10Y: 2.60
2015-03-13: 10Y: 2.13
2013-03-14: 10Y: 2.04
2011-03-14: 10Y: 3.36
2009-03-14: 10Y: 2.89
2007-03-14: 10Y: 4.53
2005-03-14: 10Y: 4.52
2003-03-14: 10Y: 3.72
2001-03-14: 10Y: 4.84
> We went multiple years without a bank failure, of any size, in the United States.
Because short term funding has been next to free.
> The losses banks have taken on their assets are real.
They're not real. That's entirely the point. They're financial assets that are locked in to fixed rate returns. If the assets were real, they'd be variable rate. Like the chicken feed that the author points out is an input to the cost of an egg. The variable chicken feed costs feed into the variable price of an egg.
When chicken feed costs increase but you're stuck selling the eggs at a fixed price, you have a problem. Risk doesn't disappear, at best it gets mitigated or bought for the value it provides. When mortgages have fixed interest rates, the interest rate risk needs to go somewhere.
This is objectively false, unless by "multiple years" he means 2 years. The data is out in the public[1] so why not do some basic research before putting out claims like that? Basic mistakes like this makes me question rest of the article and the author's grip on the subject.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-12/us-moves-...
https://archive.is/FMuYW (archive)
Think of what this means, and how precarious a position the nation's banks must be in for the fed to take actions like this. We needed to reimplement Glass-Steagall yesterday.
Note, the Federal reserve has now insane liabilities. But they can print money so they will never default. If your payroll and expenses are in USD nominal you are covered.
If you go, aha! but how do you safely protect your funds from inflation and Fed's money printer? Good luck with that. The system is rigged. "It's a big club and you ain't in it".
If you’re wondering what this was, presumably this is the moneyshot of the paywall blog
Foisting belief someone like paulg is worth billions given cherry picked math that makes it so does not make paulg special.
It’s traditional political corruption embedded in the minds of inept and infirm, shell shocked by war, made paranoid by cold wars, that makes the rich rich.
It’s policing society to make us all believe Elon or Billy G are wealthy.
Propaganda and information shaping from war era government research was gifted to university and converted into behavioral economics, advertising, and marketing programs. Americans are oblivious they’re just eating their own farts and BS.
In the near future, stablecoins like USDC will become immune to bank runs because the US Dollar reserves backing them will be held in vehicles that don't loan out the reserves and hold short-duration treasuries directly with the Treasury Department.
At the same time, any person or entity with USDC in their wallet has instant, 24/7 access to global markets at their sole discretion, without intermediaries.
On Ethereum today, anyone can buy Coinbase stock, treasuries, an S&P 500 index, and real estate.
In short, the UX of stablecoins is becoming vastly superior to bank deposits because you'll be immune to bank runs, control your own money, and have instant access to global markets, including for low-risk yield on your stablecoins, such as in treasuries or over-collateralized lending.
(largely because the mechanics of holding $60bn in treasuries would attract some questions about KYC which stablecoins are unable to answer)
However, American-run USDC is growing faster and has excellent transparency:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/us-government-enlists-usdc-f...
https://www.circle.com/blog/circle-partners-with-bolivarian-...
Yes technically "still alive" is better than "just died", but can you really call it a "better track record" when Tether is so opaque that we wouldn't be able to spot if it was about to die until it actually happens? If Tether died tomorrow it would undeniably have a worse track record than SVB, if it dies in a decade then it survived half as long as SVB.
Unless you have some insight into the actual behind the scenes finances of Tether I don't see how you can make that judgement.
And as to this claim from your GP's comment:
> In the near future, stablecoins like USDC will become immune to bank runs because the US Dollar reserves backing them will be held in vehicles that don't loan out the reserves and hold short-duration treasuries directly with the Treasury Department.
Circle (USDC) literally had $3.3B cash deposited at SVB, and presumably more accounts at other banks, so they're exposed directly to potential problems caused by those banks. More importantly they could decide tomorrow, assuming they haven't already, to make the exact same poor choices as any bank could.
There's nothing stopping them moving 95% of their assets tomorrow into 10 year treasury bonds other than that it would be a bad idea, but both they and banks are equally motivated to avoid bad ideas, so it seems to be an unwarranted hope that those in charge of Circle will make better decisions than those in charge of any bank, rather than any specific feature of USDC that makes it impossible for them to make the exact same mistake SVB made?
And that's even before considering that if it had been USDC rather than SVB that made the mistake already, FDIC wouldn't have come running in to fix anything as they try to with failed banks.
Am I missing something about USDC that actually makes it a safer bet, other than apparently having more faith in their management team than in the management teams of various banks?
Stablecoins are just fractional reserve banking but with a thin veneer of tech, and a massive narrative to differentiate them from standard fiat currency.
You're far better off just buying commodities directly, at least where your value is located is much more transparent.
Stablecoins are basically "trust me bro its worth this much, and will never drop, just don't trade too much and make me defend the peg."
Yet, non-custodial holding is becoming much easier and safer.
Crucially, wallets are improving a lot, and a spectrum of custodial options is developing, with rich tradeoffs in eg. safety and self-sovereignty.
For example https://www.coinbase.com/blog/how-smart-cryptography-makes-c...
However note
- SVB was closed on a Friday (as is the FDIC's custom). This meant that USDC could not process redemptions over the weekend as banks were closed, and this created fear in the market.
- USDC had 8% of their reserves trapped in SVB. The fair market value of USDC would have been $0.92 if all SVB deposits were lost, which was never likely.
- crucially, USDC operator Circle has acknowledged the need to transition to a "full reserve" model where reserves aren't subject to bank runs. https://twitter.com/jerallaire/status/1635548066185871360
- over the weekend, USDC did lose its $1 peg and trade as low as ~$0.88. However, all USDC holders were able to maintain access their USDC to do whatever they wanted with it, which is a lot better than SVB depositors frozen and waiting to see what happened.
> the UX of stablecoins is becoming vastly superior to bank deposits because you'll be immune to bank runs, control your own money, and have instant access to global markets, including for low-risk yield on your stablecoins, such as in treasuries or over-collateralized lending
I disagree, but OK
> over the weekend, USDC did lose its $1 peg and trade as low as ~$0.88
Hmmm doesn't seem like a Very Good Deal for an ordinary person.
> However note
Oh, now I see what you're doing. It's a Very Good Deal, except reasons
> However, all USDC holders were able to maintain access their USDC to do whatever they wanted with it
So it might have dropped 12%, but they still had access. That's a win to you?
Your definition of stable is vastly different than mine.
My FDIC backed bank account is guaranteed not to lose value.
I don't understand the cognitive dissonance on display here.
Circle before and after the SVB crisis (which happened during a friday night and through the weekend) continued to issue/redeem their tokens at par with the dollar.
It is market sentiment which temporarily devalued USDC.
You would have obtained exactly the same thing if US dollars held in SVB bank accounts were denominated in a virtual currency named "USD-SVB" and a 24/7 blockchain operating the transactions.
Before/After the crisis each USD-SVB would be reedemable for $1 but DURING the crisis I bet you my house those USD-SVB would have fallen like a rock on the dollar.
I know it's good to be anti-crypto on HN but please, try to not completely close your mind to the subject
Fundamentally, Tether and banks have the same problem: does everyone believe that that bank still has enough money to pay you your deposits? If not, then bank run. Does everyone believe that Tether has enough money to back each coin with $1? If not, then run on Tether. Banks are regulated, so there's supposed to be a bunch of people keeping track of the bank's reserves to see if they have enough money to back deposits. Tether "solves" the problem by not telling anyone what their reserves are, so nobody can figure out if Tether truly has the money to back each coin at $1 or not.
Stablecoins are closer in this direction than banks but only if they actually maintain 1:1 reserves. One advantage is that b/c they are protocols there is less need to seek returns to make payroll, rent, and profit. Another is more transparency.
But also... at this point such a stablecoin is basically a CBDC...
That sounds like the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.
If an institution has no choice but to buy short term treasuries, why wouldn’t sellers increase the price that institution has to pay?
SVB blew up because it was a bad stablecoin.