Also, I swear, if 10 years from now Apple goes through rough times, they'll ask for a government bailout.
Morality only works when you're small and weak.
It is also worth noting that bonuses are customarily paid when the business is doing better than projected, but Apple's revenues were down 5% in 2022.
Meaningful and impactful in what way? They make phones, that’s it. They are not solving some big world issues. World won’t end if we don’t get phones with bigger screens and better cameras every year.
> Some would even argue that Apple (and other big tech companies are OVERpaying...)
No. None of the tech companies are overpaying, they are in fact underpaying. Employees get a tiny fraction of the profit they generate. They are not even paying the taxes they’re supposed to.
> It is also worth noting that bonuses are customarily paid when the business is doing better than projected, but Apple's revenues were down 5% in 2022.
Apple made $117.2 billion in profits in 2022. Surely they can pay their employees bonuses and better wages in general if they want to.
Oh come on, you’re not even trying to have a fruitful discussion. You don’t have to love Apple, but at least put a sliver of effort into the discussion.
Meaningful to me is something that improves quality of life for majority of people like vaccines, cure for terminal decease, better public transport etc. Making a $1000 phone sadly does not fall into same category.
Apple did push the industry with personal computers in 80s and better smartphones in 2007 but since then it’s been very incremental improvements.
NFC payments don't consume much energy on a phone either; you can generally set them to work even if the battery is dead.
Apple does provide all those as first party services though, so you might think of buying new phones as subscribing to that if you like it.
This is a race to the bottom. "It's okay if Apple makes things worse for their employees as long as they are still not as bad as X".
I'm sure there are people who considered their bonuses when deciding to work for Apple in the first place, and I think it's telling that Apple has decided to do this at a time when companies are laying off workers and the labor market makes "leaving in droves" unlikely.
> Apple's revenues were down 5% in 2022.
Frankly, it wouldn't matter since Apple is still be making obscene profits and more than enough to treat their employees far better than they were before this change, but however bad the end of 2022 was for apple they were doing better than ever just before that.
> Cupertino, California October 27, 2022 Apple today announced financial results for its fiscal 2022 fourth quarter ended September 24, 2022. The Company posted a September quarter record revenue of $90.1 billion, up 8 percent year over year, and quarterly earnings per diluted share of $1.29, up 4 percent year over year. Annual revenue was $394.3 billion, up 8 percent year over year, and annual earnings per diluted share were $6.11, up 9 percent year over year. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/10/apple-reports-fourth-...
And as far as "really meaningful and impactful work" - well, Apple is a very large organization, with all that entails.
We're not comparing Apple engineers to some guy flipping burgers, but to engineers at other comparable companies. So "$X should be enough" is not the metric. There's no cutoff for "well compensated". It depends on how much profit the company makes and how much you bring in.
Apple is notorious for not compensating its people well, given that it doesn't have the most generous of salaries compared to other FAANGs and has more strict working conditions - while having the biggest profit margins.
>If people thought the deal they have is unfair and they can get a better deal elsewhere, they'd leave in droves, but that's not the case.
Many top devs have left Apple over the years exactly for such reasons. And people factor in other stuff too, for many years for many employees Apple was more based on instilling a cult-like, reality-distortion-based hold to be "glad to be working at Apple" than actual conpensation.
You know, of the "Apple employees get to do some really meaningful and impactful work" variety...
>Apple's revenues were down 5% in 2022.
Why, does Apple share its profits with employees the years that they're up 5%?
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how (labor) markets work. A company doesn't exist in order to funnel all its profit to its workers. Labor is a market just like other inputs, in the sense that there is supply and demand, so compensation is a function of that, not how much profit a company makes.
> You know, of the "Apple employees get to do some really meaningful and impactful work" variety...
To imply to someone who chooses to be at Apple over a place like Amazon or Meta (or non-tech company) that they are delusional and that their work is meaningless and has zero impact in this world is truly and utterly insulting.
No, it usually is a disagreement on how they should work (usually with the conventional way presented as some inviolatable physical law).
But that's irrelevant, as I wasn't aiming to critique labor markers and capitalism in the comment, or say that a "company exists in order to funnel all its profit to its workers".
That whatever they pay will be shaped by supply and demand and acceptable to people in the job market looking for a job is a given, a tautology actually.
Still, how well a company pays depends on how much of its profit it gives away. That whatever it does end paying will be ammenable to "supply and demand" doesn't mean there aren't companies paying well above market value for the same roles as others who pay less - even if the former don't need to do that to get employees.
Who are some of the companies that pay well above market value? I’m sure many engineers who have been laid off would appreciate the tip!
What is an example of such a company? I.e. one that pays well above market rate for a similar job at Apple? Bonus points if the culture, working conditions, etc. are on par or better.
Again, what do you know about Apple's internal culture? Have you actually worked there, or known anyone who has?
I've been chewing on this part. It's odd for a large profitable company to tighten the belt over a small miss that still left them large and profitable; they are not in trouble and their people aren't responsible for the macro. On the other hand, it's also no good to handsomely reward people when the business is not performing as it should; it misaligns key incentives.
Perhaps a good balance would be to retroactively adjust business targets for the purposes of the bonus; "One year ago, $X revenue looked feasible. Knowing what we know now, $Y would have been more in line with this year's market". Then you still measure collective success, but don't punish people for missing what turned out to be an impossible target.
Second, you spoke about revenues. What matters is profits. Walmart has insanely large revenues, but modest profits, due to very tight margins.
And, about Apple's profits in 2021 and 2022, I googled: "apple profits 2021 and 2022". Top hit says: "Apple annual gross profit for 2022 was $170.782B, a 11.74% increase from 2021." Ref: https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/AAPL/apple/gross-p...
Worth noting is that Apple missed investor expectations around profit for 2022, and more importantly, diluted EPS.
However, what really matters is the future outlook (expected profit, macro economic forecasts, etc.) not historical numbers. Why? Because you have to do things now to set you up for future success, not past glory.