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> Having a laptop a lightly technically minded person can repair easily makes little sense if it isn't targeted at their niche.

I disagree. There's value in a laptop that can be easily repaired/upgraded for non tech people. And I mean that. People that will only use their laptops for zoom, lightweight internet browsing and stuff like that.

Because, they will fucking break something and better to have it easily repaired than having to go a specialized center.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about people that can afford new iphone every year but people that can afford a mid-budget Android phone every two-four years.

> Generally you start deep in the niche and move mass-market as you expand.

Isn't that how you piss away your niche market?

I totally get the upgrade angle for non-technical people...but you need to convince them that they want it...and that it is worth Framework's frankly large premium.

Then you get to the fact that this machine is incredibly poorly sold if that is your market. The pre-configured options are almost insane. $1050 for a machine with 8GB ram..or $400 more to get 16GB because they paired it with CPU and Storage upgrades? Of course you can go DIY but keep in mind this is for lightly-technical users. Then a user needs to pick their port loadout.

It is overload and a lot of money for anyone who isn't technical...but if you ARE technical...this thing is basically a bad ultrabook in use. You can get a like-spec (1240p, 8gb, 256) Asus Zenbook 14 OLED...for $500 dollars less!

That's my gripe. I love the repair angle. The expansion cards are downright silly for most users. The money is basically nuts for prebuilt. And, ultimately they made a non-touch Surface Book 3..rather than a Macbook Pro.

> Isn't that how you piss away your niche market?

Well yeah. It's also how you continue to exist outside a niche. Some companies manage to do both. I would argue that the current top-end Macbook Pro is a downright niche product compared to the rest of their lineup. See also: The Mazda Miata. Niche, well loved, technical, co-existing.

> It is overload and a lot of money for anyone who isn't technical...but if you ARE technical...this thing is basically a bad ultrabook in use. You can get a like-spec (1240p, 8gb, 256) Asus Zenbook 14 OLED...for $500 dollars less!

And 8gb is all you will ever have on the Asus, since it's soldered to the board.

So the comparison between the two is completely dishonest because the Framework is an upgradable computer that can be used for decades, and the Asus is a toy which will be rusting in some 3rd world landfill in two years.

The 8GB is fair...but the Framework being upgradable for decades is...uh...pretty absurd. You don't even know if the company will exist next week. The only actually standardized upgradable part is the Storage and Memory. The Zenbook also has upgradable storage. The CPU is soldered to the proprietary board with their own battery design and own display. The battery is roughly as upgradable as on the framework if not less convenient.

Personally, the idea is all pretty oversold. If the motherboard was standardized and had a swappable CPU..maybe..but this is just a laptop with marketing. The Dell XPS 15 has the exact same upgrade path as the Framework..but also a 15 inch display and dedicated graphics. Any number of MSI laptops support upgrading ram. The idea is nobel...but not novel.

Ultimately, RAM capacity is what makes old computers usable for light use, or junk.

There are still people using the thinkpad x61 (2007) today. It came with 512MB-2GB ram, but you can put up to 8GB in it. 8GB and a SSD is enough to comfortably run the latest Linux and Chrome and is pretty decent on such a little computer.

If it had a soldered 1GB it would be junk.

8GB soldered ram will make your Asus junk in 2039 (2023 + 16 years), but 64GB in the Framework has a much better chance of being usable.

Laptop manufacturers (and clueless crony reviewers) say that the ram is soldered to make the laptop smaller, but units like the Framework clearly show this is bullshit. They're just doing it to stop you from extending the life is old hardware.

I agree with this. My personal laptop is a 2010 MacBook Pro, which is way past its expiration date, but was kept usable because I maxed the RAM (8GB) and installed a hybrid SSD. I was/am annoyed that Apple laptops no longer have user-serviceable parts, but I'm coming to terms with investing up front for that same longevity.

> Laptop manufacturers (and clueless crony reviewers) say that the ram is soldered to make the laptop smaller, but units like the Framework clearly show this is bullshit. They're just doing it to stop you from extending the life is old hardware.

Totally! Also for on die/soldering being allegedly the only way around hardware issues "requiring" the RAM to be physically as close to the CPU as possible, Dell CAMM standard shows that there are other way!

> The only actually standardized upgradable part is the Storage and Memory. The Zenbook also has upgradable storage. The CPU is soldered to the proprietary board with their own battery design and own display. The battery is roughly as upgradable as

FWIW these are the things that I need to upgrade the most frequently with computers I've owned in the past. My desktop has gone through 5 storage drives (500GB spinning disk, 2TB spinning disk, small crappy 2.5 inch SSD, bigger slightly faster 2.5 inch SSD, and finally an M.2 drive) and 3 RAM iterations (2 sticks DDR3, 4 sticks DD3, 2 sticks DDR5). I only recently got to the point where I needed to upgrade the CPU for the first time.

ddr5 in ddr3 slots?

> There's value in a laptop that can be easily repaired/upgraded for non tech people

How does the price of a Framework today plus upgrade modules in three years compare to a cheap laptop now and a new cheap laptop in three years? Obviously the former is better for the environment, but if you don't break even on your investment in a Framework laptop by the first upgrade then it's going to be a very, very hard sell for most consumers.

> We all hate the reduction in reparability in modern macbooks but look at the outcome

There are two diffetent problems with repairability - one is making it easy for a dilebtante to replace parts.

The other, is making parts and schematics avaliable so that a specialist can repair it. You don't actually have to change the design. This is what Luis Rossman is talking about

> Dedicated GPU

Yeah I only buy laptops with GPUs. Honestly laptops outside power user/gaming niche rarely need things replaced

> There are two different problems with repairability - one is making it easy for a dilebtante to replace parts. I would probably argue that this is framework's primary angle on it, which is why the cost in internal volume is so high.

> Then, where they put the card slots normally contains speakers in this category, so they needed to move those down to the battery area.

Does Framework even need embedded speakers? Why not just rely on external wired or Bluetooth speakers, or headphones, instead, and use the space for a larger battery.

Do you think there's a happy middle ground to be found then between the extensibility of the expansion cards and internal space for stuff like speakers and battery then.

I think I'd be very happy with 2 expansion card slots and 3 hardwired USB C ports that can be upgraded with mainboard revisions to support newer USB standards.