All travelers to the UK will need pre-authorization by 2025
cnbc.com
cnbc.com
> 'decision given within three days.' (so too long to book a last minute weekend trip)
> may also need to take a “dynamic selfie,”
> eventually require all travelers to submit fingerprint biometrics
I live in France, and used to go to the UK on organised trips, schools trips, holiday camps, or with friends, for a weekend to two weeks, because it was so easy to go there ! We would go to London, to Wales, Baths, Scottland, and all over; i loved that place.
You just needed any ID back then. No passport, no online application, ... And there were plenty of flights, trains, coaches and ferry services.
But that's something we haven't done since Brexit. I'm the only one in the crew with a passport. Now the ETA adds even more complexity. If any of my friend eventually get a passport, I would have to convince them to get an ETA.
Why is the UK making it so complicated for regional travellers ? Brexit was already a strong signal that they didn't want Polish or mainland Europeans anymore. And now there is some additional vetting you need to do in advance.
In the meantime, you can also go to plenty of lovely places hassle free, and where you're sure to be allowed in : Germany (even Bayern), Italy, Spain, Poland, France, Croatia,...
Why would anyone bother to go to the UK anymore ? Especially for weekend trips ? In uni, foreign students used to know all of Europe better than locals, because they wouldn't want to apply for a UK visa while they had the Schengen one.
Now, it will be all of us.
I have my Electronic Travel Autorisation/Autorisation de voyage électronique from Canada/Canada. It's ok when you go for a full trip, not just a weekend field trip. You plan trips months before you travel, when you go on the other side of the map.
But it's not comfortable for regional destinations. Europe itself made to easy with Schengen (which is not the EU btw. Countries like Switzerland or Norway never wanted to join the EU, but at least they make it easy to visit them. They're better off on their own, but don't feel threatened when EU peons visit them)
A lot of other regional countries advertised how easy it was to go there. Especially Tunisia (where you could also go with just an ID), or Turkey. Because they wanted to be popular destinations. And it worked.
I'm interested in stats for the UK.
Can literally go spontaneously every weekend over one hundred times in a row.
The USA started with the ESTA thing, previously I'd just fill in the "visa-waiver" form on the flight.
Then (I guess in response) the EU (while the UK was still a member) agreed to the ETIAS scheme. Is has simply been delayed in its introduction - it was supposed to be operating now. Hence affecting US and UK citizens traveling to the EU, and for the latter "regional travelers".
So why should EU (or US) citizens traveling to the UK be exempt from a similar experience?
It isn't related to Brexit, As such. It just seems to be the way the world in general has been heading over the last 15 or so years.
(Brexit obviously has an impact both ways for EU/UK citizens, as within the EU club FoM applied. It doesn't any more - either way. So no-one is being singled out)
Wait, can they even do that? Can the government make an app that can beam the fingerprints read from the fingerprint sensor phone back to them? AFAIK the biometric data is stored in the phone's secure enclave and can never leave it (barring any exploits).
You can’t compare that to inked fingerprints.
The EU requires you to attend a meeting to submit biometric data when you initially register.
Unlike China, it's possible to live in the UK without a smart phone (I do), last time I visited China it was basically impossible.
Canada, for exemple. They asks you for your name, passport number, credit card number, if you have anything specific to mention. Then you instantly received an email with your ETA
On the other hand, countries like the USA make it weird. They infamously ask you if you were involved in the 3rd Reich, and they want your social media accounts. The latter is probably to know if you're an American&Trump loving tourist, or if you keep saying that Canada is better. Idk what else they can get out of this.
oh, and they ask you if you have a mental health disorder; They probably don't want autistic tourists either.
Mining for extremist attitudes or behaviors
have fun, dear government agents. You were the ones who wanted it.
I hope trollish attitude or behaviour isn't disqualifying, but I couldn't care less if I'm allowed in the USA or not.
There was a brief golden age when you could show a passport from a western country at the border of many other countries and they would let you in. No planning ahead required. I think we will see reciprocal waivers return at some point, once countries realize their citizens are affected by these policies as well.
that's usually what they say to expedite the process of turning the country into a "third-world dump"
Have you learned about the notion of Race to the bottom ?
If UK people would learn foreign languages instead of the newspeak that is modern English, they would be able to read foreign news.
This is contrary to eg BBC reporting which says that Irish /residents/ departing from Ireland also won’t need an ETA
Edit: which makes sense, because you often arrive as a domestic passenger when arriving from Ireland, with no passport checks (except for a couple of police occasionally, who pick out certain people for some questioning), so who would be checking the ETA?
So on flights, full ID checks have been in force for entry to the UK for any years - since around 1995 or so. One can still travel between Ireland and GB on ferries and avoid ID checks, but if one is not an Irish or British citizen, once can not make use the the CTA (which is not a "travel area", but reciprocal privileges for both citizenship's).
But non-British/non-Irish do benefit from and indirect make use of the CTA though.
They arrive as domestic passengers in to the UK from Ireland and therefore they do not enter the UK in the same manner as passing through border control.
Also, if they were in a certain visa situation in the UK (eg spouse visa renewal) where leaving the UK would automatically revoke their UK visa application, AIUI, they can still travel to CTA without having their application revoked.
What do you mean practically when you say they’re not meant to make use of it? They’re meant to fly Dublin-Paris-Manchester? At MAN they bus you to domestic and boom you’re in the UK. They have no choice.
Edit: It’s clear there are provisions in place for the direct benefit of Irish and UK citizens, but due to practicalities etc that others get fringe benefits too.
No - Simply that they're supposed to fulfill the entry requirements for non British or Irish folks, or risk arrest, prosecution, and being deported. That happened to some folks from Peru (I believe), who traveled to GB via Ireland, NI, then ferry to Scotland.
Simply the CTA is misnamed, it is not a "travel area", that is simply an effect arising out of the reciprocal rights of British and Irish citizens in the other state.
Note "Nationals of any of these visa-exempt countries need to apply for an ETIAS travel authorisation." You will notice the flag of the USA, and if you follow the link, see it listed in ANNEX II (1.B)
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
I've not looked at the recent rules for entry to Canada.
The point is that to date, the EU has had issues in bringing the ETIAS scheme in to operation. It was supposed to be operating now, but looks like it is delayed until 2024.
What? They can't track who comes and goes just by recording at the border now? We have computers and databases, right?
Of course, if they're not sure exactly how many people are coming into the island of Great Britain, then that's plain incompetence.
Given their current leadership, however, that's almost guaranteed to happen.
3 Days turnaround time is a joke in itself. When I electronically applied for an Australian visa I had it 40 minutes later. And that was a "real visa". Not just a travel permit.
[0] https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/jul/09/uk-passport-...
The government says the ETA scheme will strengthen border security...[clip]...under current rules it does not have wholly accurate data on the number of people entering and leaving the country.
So, relate that to the state of border control of an entire nation, and you get the idea..
It doesn't really cover folks driving (Which would make their numbers different), but I suppose there are less routes into the UK by car.
If you can't get accurate numbers from that, how would an online form change that?
Take, for example, recent industrial action where striking staff were replaced with armed forces. Apparently, the system ran incredibly smoothly but I don't doubt a lot of the everyday bureaucracy was overlooked at the same time.
Not in every case. Eg arrivals from Ireland.
Also I think it’s been politically motivated to hide behind the lie of it being difficult or impossible to count the number of immigrants in the country. Various people/groups believe the UK population is vastly underreported
It makes those on the right who cry about immigration feel a bit better and makes for good security theater.
If you fail that you go through the full visa process.
It’s basically pre-screening before you even show up at the border.
How exactly is this going to work with an open border between Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland?
For that matter, wouldn't requiring an ETA for Republic of Ireland citizens to travel to Northern Ireland be a violation of the Good Friday Agreement, even independent of what happens at the border?
That being said, politicians seem to shy away from putting anything resembling a checkpoint on that border in fear of reigniting the conflict. But that would be necessary, if only to check residency status and validate the ETA for non-Irish EU citizens.
Once there is a checkpoint, political pressure will rise to also use it for EU goods checks and renegotiate the Windsor agreement.
That, or NI will be excluded from the ETA requirement and the check will be moved to the irish sea border - which would make the DUP mad again.
This stuff was a gordian knot to solve for goods alone, they'll have fun doing it all again for people.
So nothing changes regarding flights from NI to GB. There are usually few checks on the ferries, but one is advised to carry proof of citizenship, as one can be asked to prove that one is entitled to use the CTA.
Separately, it was recently announced that third country nationals traveling from Ireland to NI would not require prior authorisations. i.e. the UK will not police travel across the intra-Ireland brder.
Ah ok. Glad to hear they are being sensible here.
The cost of the ETA has not been confirmed but it is expected to be in a similar range to those schemes. The U.S. Electronic System for Travel Authorization costs $21.
The European Union is set to launch its own digital travel authorization scheme, called ETIAS, for visa-exempt nationals in 2024. It will enable travel within 30 countries.
So anything who didn't apply an ETA will now be blocked? I thought they should at least offer an option for something like £100 to get it done at the border.
But that is a lot of inconvenience for travellers.
There is also "bad person" without scare quotes to consider.
> similar name to a "bad person"
If you share the same name with someone on a watch list, you may be required to physically attend an interview at the embassy. That's a huge burden and something visa free travelers may not have had to do before.
It is a huge burden for me and everybody else to take off our shoes and stand in long lines over the last 25 years or so. The experience is already suboptimal, some security theatre is at play to be sure, and yet what do you actually suggest?
Perhaps you misread what I said above:
> There is also "bad person" without scare quotes to consider.
The status quo? That's implied by the conversation we're having, the existing system Vs. the new system.
> Perhaps you misread what I said above:
Didn't understand it the first time I read it, don't understand it now.
I am under the impression some types of Visas allow reentry without declaring ETA ahead of times, but I am unsure.
Travellers from visa waiver countries explicitly need an ETA. All others need, well, a visa.
Possibly Canada is different.
If I'm planning to visit two countries in one trip, i have to plan that each embassy will hold my passport for a week or two (it really depends on the country).
These schemes are "harder" than what it used to be, but still a hoop i'd be ecstatic to jump through if i could.
If I don't need a visa, because I'm a "visa-exempt" national insn't ETIAS just another name for a visa then?
It's confusing and looks like a copout from the previous VISA agreements countries have signed.
Hence all of these various "visa waiver" schemes have been mis-named, they're just simpler/cheaper/easier visa schemes.