SVB does not deserve a bailout. They DID NOT hedge interest rate risk at all
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If banks are rescued from this, the only logical conclusion is that all banks should just cease to exist. Why should they get to play with what is effectively taxpayer's money, since that is where the risk will be paid from if they lose?
Let it all fail. If you don't let it fail, might as well go full on CDBC and revoke banks privilege and role in managing money. What's even the point of having banks when the banks don't really hold the risk themselves? Why have them as gatekeepers? They don't deserve a single dollar earned from risk that they don't hold.
How it usually works is, when a bank fails and is "rescued", the shareholders (owners) who "get to play" with the money get nothing. The ones who are "rescued" are usually some/most of the debt holders. Letting debt holders also shoulder some of the costs is worth considering, but the authorities generally believe it's too risky (the risk being a huge amount of debt holders pulling their money and/or demanding much higher interests which raises general borrowing costs).
Where even getting margin called on extremely big margins compared to my initial investment, the government would sweep in because that margin wasn't even mine to play with?
Where I get absolutely ridiculous interest rates from the Fed which I don't need to pass on to my meat shield clients, I just get literally free money from the central bank?
All these privileges for no responsibility. This has to end. If we all admit it's other people's money, and we all admit that in failure, the government will also cover for them, and they get to play these completely absurd investments with leverage of 20 to 1, their privilege is just unjustified.
When the broker fucks up and let you blow your margins, the broker pays the bills. But banks get to blow the margins with everyone's money and somehow the government only comes in when they blew it, but wasn't responsible to keep tabs on their margin in the first place? And there's barely any margins, the leverage ratios are insane.
Of course debt holders would require much higher interests. The whole thing is just a sad scheme where the government is letting privileged entities a monopoly of using leverage on other people money, while the government holds the tail risk.
I would love to get 20 to 1 margin with the government taking all the tail risk to zero and allowing me to dip below zero by design. If I blew it I could start again just like Lehman CFO which moved over to SVB.
If you take their responsibility, you have to take their privileges too.
I don’t think that is practical at all. Not enough of people are going to be doing their due diligence on bank risk profiles, 20 years later.
Making excessive risk illegal through regulations seems more practical, but maybe your point was also that these failed.
If you banked directly at the Fed, or with crypto, then moving some of your money to a bank would actually be a choice. And the entire incentive structure would shift accordingly.
They have no incentive to change. They are given a government backed mandate to be your only choice. Given those privileges, it's their incentives to abuse them. They have been continuously abusing them for years. It's not only risk, it's the interest rates they give customers. They get to arbitrarily pick and choose their friends to get good interest rate while you get trash.
They get to do all of this because they are protected with innocent people as meat shields. Meat shields that have no other choice but to protect these people from consequences.
Presumably you apply for a banking license, commit a lot of capital and subject yourself to countless onerous regulations (with more to come, as usual). I'm pretty sure it's significantly less fun than you imply.
As for the shareholders whose money get leveraged, most large banks are public and you're free to buy stocks. If you money in index funds or other diversified stock funds, you likely already have invested substantial amounts.
Now we're saying, actually, banks effectively don't impose counterparty risk on their clients. So the government is actually who's taking the counterparty risk.
If that's the government and not the customers, why did they get that privilege? Why is the government only there when the risk is fulfilled?
Limited liability is fine. It's not fine when who's really liable is the government, while the original deal was between the bank and its customer. Student loans are also not fine either, since you don't get to set them to zero.
Revoke Banks privilege of handling money. Let them play the game like the rest. Even the government itself needs to raise money using Treasury bonds. I want a fair game. This game is rigged. One player has the privilege of effectively using the government as an insurer for it's counterparty risk. It has repeatedly blown and abused that privilege. Revoke it.
Let me hold my account at the Fed if I have positive balance, just like the rest of the banks. Call it CDBC or whatever. Let me get the Fed interest rates just like banks do. The banks are free to do business as they have always done, to loan money. They are free to deal with the trench of people who need loans. Not with my money. My money is only there because they forced me to. That's not a fair system. I don't approve their usage of it for their margins but I literally don't have a choice. Which is why they also get to give me zero interest rates while the Fed gives them much higher rates.
And that's problematic for banking.
Thought experiment: for bank functionaries a strategy that has an equal chances of +10% and -40% is better than guaranteed +4% (for them EV is +5%). As a result, they are able to attract more depositors by providing higher rates that bank that went with option (2). Depositors will (rationally) chase highest rates knowing that worst case scenario - government bails them out completely.
Everyone behaves according to incentives, with the result being that money is used on ventures with -15% expected value instead of +4%.
Converting from (EV on bank accounts) to return for shareholders is non-trivial, but as long as shareholders get > 100% RoI in successful case their EV is positive.
> Bank employees could get higher bonuses, but also run higher risk of 0% bonus and losing their job.
Losing job aside, equal chances of 100% and 0% bonus is better than guaranteed 30% bonus. Depending on premium you put on having the same job, it may be better even with risk of losing job.
This scenario will not work for investments, as people understand that if startup X fails - you loose money. In "government bails out depositors completely" scenario: you invest money in bank, bank loans it to startup X, startup X fails - you get your money back (from government and ultimately taxpayers).
AFAICT the only special stakeholders in banks are depositors. Are you trying to say that depositors should run a lot more risk (i.e. not always made whole in case of illiquidity/insolvency)?
Some people, including YC CEO, argue that taxpayers should drop the "up to FDIC limit" part.
I've took another look at out conversation and you didn't do that. I was arguing against position you didn't hold. Sorry for that.
If elements in the finance industry keep acting irresponsibly - clearly true - why should they get a pass on personal consequences?
You can also put your cash into money market funds that invest in T-Bills, which is what anybody with some common sense and a large amount of money should do.
But in this world entities that offer you a return on your money will still exist, e.g. banks. If I can register my cash and you pay me x% per year, that’s better than getting 0. So banks would form regardless.
Banks make loans and create credit which allows the broader economy to grow. Better to have properly regulated private sector entities with skin in the game making lending decisions than having the federal government do it.
If you take a big chunk of credit creation and issuance out of service, the economy is likely to regress fairly significantly.
Clearly the existing bank regulations aren’t sufficient though.
Similarly, ceasing steroid use will reduce muscle mass.
We can move to a world without credit, but standard of living for people will drop significantly. Look at what happened when they tightened lending standards into a recession in the 1930s.
The key is to find the right balance in regulations to make the system robust
No doubt it would be "inflationary" or some other nonsense, but the reality is that banking is a form of deliberate rationing and enforced political hierarchy.
The financial industry exists solely for its own benefit, at spectacular cost to everyone else - not just by making significant capital almost cripplingly expensive for most of the population, but also by acting in irresponsible self-serving ways which everyone else has to pay for.
It's like wishing that healthcare system wouldn't exist because you imagine a world where people were just healthy instead.
Mortgages used to be boring and conservative, house prices were rational, but financial middlemen didn't make any money on it so it had to stop. It took the Reagan administration installing the Merrill Lynch CEO as head of Treasury to get it done.
The 2008 financial crisis and today's overinflated shitshow of a housing market are the direct result, along with tons of wealth creation for the rentier class.
They're not exactly risking nothing. Capital requirements mean that each dollar of deposits need to be backed by more than a dollar worth of assets. The extra assets serves as a cushion in case something goes wrong. That cushion makes up the equity of the bank, and comes from shareholders. If the bank "fails", the shareholders lose it all, so it's in their interest to prevent that from happening.
That's absolutely ridiculous. Where do I sign up. I want to gamble other people money at 10 to one leverage and nobody suing me if I fall.
My cushion if I make a margin account at the bank is what, 2 to 1? Do you know the interest rates you pay for these margins? Compare that to interest rates the banks give their customers.
They are absolutely privileged, by law. You as an individual or even as a corporation don't get this privilege.
Why is it in their interest not to risk it in a ridiculous way? If I had several margin accounts of 10 to 1 that can only go down to zero, the highest return isn't by spending it wisely. It's by spending it in the most risky way, getting that sweet 10x on that risk and the rest can go to zero for all I care. I don't even need a positive expectation value investment to have a positive expectation value from this shenanigan.
Even investing in an unfair coin toss of 40% to double, getting free 10 to one margins my expectation value is an absurd 400% return starting from what should be negative expectation value investment.
The banks have privileges that are absolutely rigging the game in the most distorted ways possible. The shareholders equity doesn't justify their privileges.
The logical conclusion to these bailouts was that the regulatory environment surrounding banking was plain bad which was unsurprising because successive neoliberal governments had torn down most of it. The conclusion to this one is that it still is and what was done in 2010 (Dodd-Frank) is a joke and clearly insuffisant. Something everyone knew.
You want to be mad at someone? Start with your government.
We're only in this mess because banks have excessive privileges. These privileges lead to misaligned incentives. No amount of regulation can realign the incentives back. Only revoking their privileges.
Their privileges include being the only entities able to deal with the Fed and hold deposits .
Let people bank directly at the Fed. Or with crypto. But banks don't deserve a special privilege of being the only way people can hold money.
Furthermore, loans should not be transferable.
Now banks will actually have to price loans correctly. And putting your money in a bank would be a choice they will have to tempt you with, by actually giving real interest rates. And you won't have misaligned incentives, because there is no captive audience.
Giving your money to the bank would be a risk you're doing willingly. A risk they will pay you for taking instead of robbing from you by their regulatory privileges.
I also agree that banks shouldn’t be the sole intermediating agents for money creation but this has absolutely nothing to do with retail banking.
Who exactly is the captive audience in retail banking? Last time I checked there was plenty of choice there.
Anyway, SVB clearly is a failure of risk management which is a failure of the regulatory environment.
SVB was exempted from much of Dodd-Frank and Basel III.
In the United States, banks can empower the government in such a way as to crack down on 'problematic' things without a direct Constitutional crisis.
See Bank of America voluntarily handing the FBI their firearm related transaction dataset.
Private industry goves government a plausible deniability proxy in short.
Yes, they're exposed to SVB failing but as everything in life we're all exposed to failures we have no influence over
VCs, founders etc had influence over where companies money was kept, and ultimately whether to start a run on the bank and kill it
No, it's not "good enough". Far too many companies can no longer make payroll as a result of this.
If, on the other hand, you had a lot more cash on hand but parked it all as uninsured deposits in one bank, you should be screaming at whatever mentor told you that was a reasonable thing to do. Either your mentor was a hack with little financial experience or they were conniving against taxpayers and believed bailouts would magically come to their rescue and remediate well-known tail risk. Somebody done you wrong, kid. Take it up with them, not the rest of us.
Is $250k a fixed limit for insured deposits? If your company needs more than $250k to meet a month of payroll, is it advised that you have accounts in multiple banks so that you have the necessary liquidity guaranteed as insured deposits? (E.g. if you need a million you'd need 4 different banks, if you need 5 million you need 20 different banks?)
Or can you pay some extra insurance in order to get the required protection without the operational hassle of having to deal with multiple banks?
Or is it the logic that you need to protect from bank runs to one (or two) of your banks and assume that the others will stay solvent?
That is an option, yes. You can also automate it through a couple different ways. Some are third party brokers who then deposits it across multiple institutions keeping each balance below $250k, others are banks that have agreements between each other to share deposits such that the deposit at each institution is below the limit.
For an example of the latter, https://www.intrafinetworkdeposits.com/find-intrafi-network-...
> Or can you pay some extra insurance in order to get the required protection without the operational hassle of having to deal with multiple banks?
The above deals with the operational hassle but you can also directly insure deposits.
The most direct way is the Depositors Insurance Fund, which is run out of Massachusetts and has some participating banks.
Incidentally, really large companies like GM or Toyota, fund their payroll through the commercial paper market. As a result they don’t have the large balances you’re imagining sitting around in bank accounts for a monthly withdrawal.
These sorts of notes actually occupy a fun place in the history of the development of currency, but that’s off topic.
According to https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/urgent-sign-the-petition-no...
> In the Y Combinator community, one-third of startups with exposure to SVB used SVB as their sole bank account
Why did so many startups end up in that situation?
Is doing things properly too expensive? Or just requires hiring an expert? Hubris? (won't happen ever), calculated risk? (Among the many things that can go wrong in a early startup life, the bank going bust is the last worry)
So it really is “the rest of us” who are to blame, by passively accepting corruption and feckless regulators. Taxpayers should pay the bill, it might incentivize them to get off their ass for once.
like they did in 2008?
I would rather pay off student loans
2008 is aka 'The Great Recession'; it likely would have been much worse without govt intervention, though the targets of the help were corporations, not the average person affected by it.
The 2008 crash was the culmination of a house of cards largely enabled by deregulation that wiped out huge mainstays in America, including the auto industry. GM and Chrysler are only with us today because of massive govt bailouts. Many banks large and small failed and were absorbed into larger ones (eg Washington Mutual). The govt bailed out other banks deemed 'too big to fail' (eg Chase).
Countries were also failing over this (eg Greece, which used the euro hence was not a sovereign currency issuer and had to rely on Germany et al to assist). Severe govt spending cuts were imposed around the world, leaving the average citizen bearing the brunt of the downturn.
None of the criminal bankers that caused this crash were held criminally or civilly accountable, sparking the Occupy protests. In fact, they still got their big bonuses that taxpayers paid for. Meanwhile, average people lost their homes, businesses, and jobs.
It took about a decade to return to pre-crash economic levels. Not counting 9/11 (the effects of which changed the trajectory of modern life), this was the first 'once in a lifetime' shock for Millennials that set us back many years … just in time for a global pandemic.
There are some movies about the 2008 crash. Maybe checkout 'Margin Call'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932008_financial_cr...
I think fast is better than perfect in this scenario.
We can discuss changing that moving forward, but SVB is already done and dusted.
If companies want to lobby for some sort of tax like unemployment tax on wage labor, to fund a business version of unemployment, it might be a different story.
How many of those have a treasury function?
Tech workers are usually at will, no union, so I think salary is completely discretionary.
This would be for hours going forward, not the payrolls due for hours already worked.
Of course, that won't matter because in the event that you can explain it, there's no guarantee you're not being unknowingly defrauded. Save your schadenfreude, it's gross.
The problem is that their portfolio was too long duration, not a lack of hedging.
In general you are right. But last year was special. Everyone and their grandmother knew the Fed will hike rates, numerous times. The Fed did not tire to tell that to whomever bothered to listen. Not putting any interest rates hedge on in such a situation sounds a bit crazy.
The government's decision on whether to bail out its depositors or not isn't going to be (and shouldn't be) based on how well the bank was run, especially given that it was fully compliant with all regulations.
Tan's proposed bailout is nothing like TARP
Tan is proposing the backstop deposits. In this case, the govt can receive AT MOST a dollar for every one of its dollars. The absolute best case is a break-even on the investment (and the government eating the cost of administering the program)
Looking at the most recent 10-K (12/21), if you have more recent figures I’d be happy to use those:
Total deposits: 173.109B
Total assets: 211.793B
Of the assets, those that the government would actually care about in a takeover: 13.8B cash
26.1B available-for-sale (presumably marked to market, so that’s supposed to represent today’s sale price)
91.3B held to maturity securities (these aren’t marked to market AFAIK, so this represents the value if they’re held to maturity not sold today)
73.6B in loans net of loss allowances
Total: 204.8B
There are also a few billion of non marketable securities and “other” which I left out.Granted, some of this has already been liquidated, but if the government paid out depositors one-for-one, and held the rest of the book to maturity they’d make 31B. That’s basically the same argument employed when stating the government “made” money with TARP.
> presumably marked to market
This is the key-- not sure if we really know what is marked to market at what isn't
> held the rest of the book to maturity
That's like 8 years? and a gain in nominal terms but to real terms ie inflation-adjusted since a 2031 dollar is worth less than a 2023 dollar
You also need to look at second-order effects. If startups go out of business because of this, that's a drain on unemployment funds. Those are income taxes not getting paid. Then there are downstream job losses on top of it. It could set back the sector for years, giving other countries sudden advantage in tech. In addition, some LPs are pension funds, so taxpayers would have to make up pension shortfalls. Then there's the risk of contagion now that everyone will be looking at their bank closely. You really don't want to take that chance.
Companies need to get some money very quickly, and you really want them to get at least 95 cents on the dollar back within a month.
It's one thing to let tech suffer because of its own hubris, but because of a run on a traditional bank?
FDIC guarantees deposits up to 250k and everyone should know this. I know grandmothers with better risk mitigation strategies than these startups.
Your second paragraph is pure scare tactic. Companies that fail at the basics of managing their own money against simple obvious risks should face the result of their careless. They will be replaced by better-run companies.
This isn't the time to be a purist. What happened happened; now you have to look hard at possible outcomes and be pragmatic about the best response.
Silicon Valley was not an investment-grade bank. If you’re running a corporate treasury function, you should have sweep, have a back-up bank account and know how to pull deposits into Treasuries.
Shouldn't we be looking at the implementing Basel III capital requirements for ALL financial companies, and not just toward banks (thus exempting non-banks such as SVB)?