Living the writing life means living with failure
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My overall rejection rate for poetry is 99% and for fiction 98%.³ On a year-by-year basis, my highest acceptance rate for fiction was 4.2% and my lowest (after those early years of rejection) was 0.5%. For poetry, my acceptance rate has ranged from 0% to 3.3%.
I’ve been pretty resilient with respect to rejection. I credit my love life (or lack thereof) in my teen and young adult years for that.
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1. I have an MFA and have published 20 short stories and 11 poems over the last nine years. (https://www.dahosek.com/publications/).
2. The odd number being caused by the fact that it was an Australian publication and this was my net after bank fees and currency conversion. The nominal pay was AUD75.
3. My MFA was in fiction and I feel much more confident in prose than in poetry—I could teach a fiction workshop, but would be at a loss to try to lead a poetry workshop.
Unfortunately, with so many people publishing books these days, the chance of your work standing out of the crowd becomes effectively zero, and one bad initial review will stop a book sale dead even if totally unjustified, (we are in a five-star review or nothing culture).
I don't know what the solution to this is except persevere and if you don't succeed feel good in knowing you have a legacy.
However, some editors will ask certain writers to submit to their venues, and as you become more famous editors will (despite what they try to say) become positively biased towards you when they see your name in their queue. But that’s very different from looking you up on social media; more likely, you got talked about in the editors social circle and if you have 500 or 5000 followers didn’t matter then…
If you're going to stick with it, there has to be something there beyond a desire for sales or widespread praise.
Success, too, has its downsides. My wife is a painter--and if you think it's hard to make a living at writing, try painting. She met another painter who makes a huge income, but that painter complained, "My first sales were paintings of boats. And for years now, everyone comes to me wanting a boat. I'm bored to death of them. I want to paint other subjects, but this is what pays, so I keep doing it, as frustrating as it is."
Look into fiction writing, and you'll find few writers whose publishers will let them write outside their genres. Those writers may want to explore, but the publishers know what has sold in the past, and they want more of that. The only major author I can think of who sells big in multiple genres in Stephen King.
Self-publishing has been a godsend for those who like to explore. You can write anything you want and push it out at will. You might not make money at it, but you can do it.
At bottom, you have to choose your definition of success and failure. If you define success as being accepted by editors and critics, receiving praise and prizes from the publishing community and hitting the bestseller lists, all of that is beyond your control. It's like fishing for likes on Instagram.
If you define success as getting better at your craft, writing something that you and the few people you really respect like, then you can find fulfillment. I often think of gardeners who pour hours into their roses, not to get rich or to receive recognition, but just because it pleases them and fulfills a deep inner appreciation.
Current developments in AI don't make it any better for both professions, I'm afraid.
It does seem like commercial art and literature are in for a tough ride, though high art and literary fiction may stay secure. The question and problem is that the two segments may be more interdependent than anyone wants to admit.
"Michael O Church", who, for some reason, people act as if he's famous or important enough to be identified via an acronym, which isn't true even among HNers...
The world hasn’t forgotten. He’s a big part of the reason why no one believes in tech anymore.
He was too flashy about his intellect and got used as an example. That was his big mistake.
I think this is wonderful advice. Perhaps in the same vein as existentialists arguing that you get to define the meaning of your life, I like this sentiment that you get to choose whether you've succeeded or not.
I finally published my first book last month, I don't care if it sells any, I think it is good and it will still be there long after I'm gone. I'm certainly going to continue now the dam has broken.
From Greek Bearing Gifts, part of the fabulous Bernie Gunther's cycle.
Rejection is the term I think they are really looking for, but rejection != failure unless you only think of writing in very narrow terms.
Yeah, anyone can write anything they want. That's what a diary is. Writing something that people want to pay for or optioned off to publishing house, is obviously way harder. Money is pretty important when it comes to paying for things that are needed in life.
Mind you this coming for a fellow that has a very weird catalog of occult/spirituality, peak oil stuff and politics/economics things. But over 80+ books, there seems to be just enough residual income that it is working out for him. But as he said, there was a very long time where living on the poverty line was the only way through.
Exactly this. I tried "living the writer's life" 15 years ago ... but it didn't work out. The rejections hurt. When I discovered self-publishing (first lulu.com, then Smashwords) I went all-in: having the work available to whoever wanted it became more important to me than daydreams of wealth and acclaim.
I've never made money from self-pub (I give my books away), but it's nice to know that my work is being downloaded and (I assume) read across the world - even if it's only in small numbers[1].
[1] - there's graphs in the sheets, if you look for them - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VxvFe1laRhZXfC6VvebZ...
https://www.amazon.com/Not-Gentle-Book-One-Discovery-ebook/d...
Mark's writing style really pulled me in and I'm bummed he didn't finish the series. I still have hope that he'll get back to it one day.
Some of the ones who stick through all the failure make it. Although that path long and uncertain.
It’s also why sometimes people who excel academically before phd can get shocked when they encounter a life full of failure and rejections once they enter phd.
I’m running an experiment myself to see how successful a normie with no large social media presence can be writing a programming and technology blog on Substack. Check back in 7 months to see how it went
I’ve made a decent amount of money from self-publishing so it isn’t all for naught. While I don’t need the money, it helps validate that my writing is helping somebody out there. Or that my ads are targeting the right people although I don’t have a mass audience.
There are so many under appreciated books out there that fall into the same sea of irrelevance as my books. But there will be a time in my life where one of those books will ride a trendy wave so long as I keep writing a book each year.
I self-published one book and am working on a second. I have done zero marketing as I wrote the book primarily for myself. Those who have read it really enjoyed including people who are extremely blunt about their opinions.
I’m writing a short book right now on long Covid and then will piece together a philosophy book surrounding the four classic elements.
What are yours?
I haven't tried writing science fiction but enjoy reading the genre - currently reading Dust by Hugh Howey. Thus, I tend to stick to the current world as I understand it better.
Your books sound interesting! I'm impressed!
I guess writing is a bit like coding. It's hard to judge what will actually be good, what actually works, why and who is any good and for similar reasons.
If you build a bridge, anyone can see if it works. It's a lot harder to judge if writing or coding "works."
What work was done? How well did it do that work?
Inferring from proxies is always dicey and tends to not inspire confidence.
For me, writing is a very frustrating drive...
I've been writing novellas and short stories fairly seriously for about thirteen years now. About a year ago, when evaluating what I want to do in life, I decided to finish a novel. I've started quite a few over the years, but they always peter out in the drafting phase, so I decided this time to approach the task with a "finish it no matter what, no matter how bad the finished product is" approach.
The trouble is – I still dream of getting published, of becoming a published novelist, despite my rational side knowing: (1) I'm not that good at writing, and (2) even if I were, it's very difficult to succeed (not just financially) as a writer.
This is why I say writing is frustrating. I can't really give it up – not the activity of writing itself, nor my unrealistic dream – and yet I know it's essentially a lost cause.
That said, it's been a huge benefit professionally well in excess of direct money with book signings at events etc.
Picking stocks is simple. All you have to do is take a course on accounting, read up on valuation, and find a niche (endless variety here) to focus on. Research stocks carefully. Document your analysis and publish regularly. Syndicate on podcasts and fintwit. There are many people that will pay $100/mo for this sort of research if you do it well.
Spend the rest of your time writing your novel.
These 2 things are completely unrelated; and btw, lots of people have done completely unrelated things and been successful at both of them. Einstein was a patent clerk. Samuel Clemens/Mark Twain was a scientist. TS Eliot a banker, ACDoyle a doctor. And who said you need to be a web personality? And why is the financial advice questionable?
> If the research is actually valuable, shouldn't your advice to the novelist be to exploit it directly?
No. Doubling your money at 100k invested is worth 200k. Doubling your money at 100M invested is 200M. Who is more likely to pay $100/mo for good stock research? The percentage is the same, the absolute value is massively different. And someone with 200M doesn't have time to sit around leafing through 10Qs, but they do have to time to read your executive summary analysis, particularly if you do well and get a name for yourself.