Ask HN: Accused of acting sexist. What do do? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Accused of acting sexist. What do do?

32 pointsAccusedAtWork35 comments

A woman between 20 and 30 has accused me of mistreating her because of her gender. She says that I have asked her questions I wouldn't have asked any man. I don't think that is true because I have asked almost word-for-word identical questions to male colleagues. And they have all been work-related. Like "Any news from project XYZ?" Nothing about her personal life. I have told her that if I have offended her I apologize and that it wasn't my intention. She said that she doesn't believe me and that I intentionally denigrate her. Since then I have avoided her because I fear that she might accuse me of more and worse things. But we work in the same project so it isn't always possible. I'm afraid that false rumors will spread about me. She has many friends in the department I have none. I also have Asperger's and have been accused of taking things literally in the past.

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First off, you should be careful when using apologic statements at work. They can be seem as an admission of guilt by the claimant and/or employeer and can lead to further action. Saying things as such as:

(1) "I understand that you feel that way, but my intention behind that statement was ... ." (2) "It's unfortunate that you feel that way, but my intentions were ... ." (3) "I can see that my actions have affected you, by my intentions were ... ." (4) "I didn't intend to upset you, my intentions were ... ."

would be better for issues in the future.

In regards to how she responded. You can't control how people interpret and handle situations. You can only change with how you deal with it in the future, knowing that she has responded this way should let you know that (

I would from now on keep all conversations in written and storable form via email, letter, or chat, and if you need to talk to her, make sure you plan what you are going to say and make sure you have another colleague in the room as a referense to the conversation.

If you feel you want to remedy to the situation, I would set up a meeting with HR and try and come to a solution.

Frankly those "I understand that you feel that way but my intention was" statements sound far more like evidence that someone is intentionally patronising and denigrating someone than "sorry, I didn't mean..."

That carries all the problems of acknowledging you're aware of the effects of things you're saying (just as bad from an HR point of view), but simply refusing to care (worse), and it's hard to think of any response to accusations of "mansplaining" that sounds more like "mansplaining" than unapologetically stating it's unfortunate a lady is incorrect to object to your statement...

I think the key thing to question in your response is "sounds more like evidience ..." . How we intend to convey something is a byproduct of who we are at a particular moment in time, as is someone interpreting something is a byproduct of who they are at a particular moment in time. If you were to include gender to be one of the factors in the byproduct of who someone is at a particular moment in time, I would think my considered responses is more likely helpful then anything else unless their is something I'm not considering, because (1) you are acknowledging their hurt, and (2) you are conveying that was not your intentions. You can classify this scenario as a misunderstanding. People in general won't cohesively work well together until they recognize and change the way they handle these misunderstanding.

As far as OP goes, this situation is hard to judge, but if somebody seems determined to end your career there, your best bet might be to try and document your Aspergers with both HR (and also perhaps some non-insane upper level manager in your company who might be able to provide some pushback from above) and ask for reasonable accommodation for your medical condition. Aspergers still puts you lower on society's oppression scale, but it's at least something medical that can be documented and makes them more cautious about this circumstance and just taking her word for it without a fair shake. And you'd probably want to do it quickly.

As a general statement on society, this kind of thing is probably rare, but it's common enough to make me see it as a negative risk to work with anybody other than straight White (or maybe Asian) men, because everybody else has social power over you to fuck you over for any perceived slight.

You might be “mansplaining”. Think if you may have told her things or explained things she may have already known. She may perceive you are insulting her intelligence.

Given that you have Asperger’s, this is likely something you do to everyone, and not related to gender. You probably have a lot of knowledge and it’s natural to want to share that. However you may be missing subtle clues that the person you are talking to doesn’t need or want you to teach them because they have 100% of the ability of anyone else.

Was HR involved or did she tell you this directly? I’d recommend explaining that you have Asperger’s, apologize if your behavior is perceived as offensive and ask for help adjusting your communication. Presenting this as a disability could help counter the perception of sexism by implying that others are being ableist. Don’t actually says that though. The unsaid implication will be enough to set the neurotypical person’s hair on fire.

If it's something he does to everyone is it really 'mansplaining'? Seems like it would just be explaining.

He would not perceive it that way, but if the recipient was a woman and perhaps fighting a lifelong battle to be a respected technical contributor, then it could be perceived as mansplaining and sexist.

Or maybe she was just a narcissist on a power trip trying to feel offended and exploit the new political paradigm of female supremacy.

Maybe, which is why I suggest countering with a discussion of neurodivergence.

> Seems like it would just be explaining.

Not if he happens to be a man as well!

Can definitely relate here. I've been accused of "mansplaining" and aggressive communication more than once, when I am only intending to communicate clearly and directly the same way I always do with everyone all the time. Clear communication isn't an insult. The tendency that some people have for unnecessary and unfounded offense is utterly obnoxious.

> You might be “mansplaining”. Think if you may have told her things or explained things she may have already known. She may perceive you are insulting her intelligence.

Probably she is perceiving it wrongly?

Explaining things to a coworker seems pretty normal, unless you're unnecessarily repeating yourself and they already told you they got it, or is intentionally public like in a meeting

No matter how much experience they have, everyone knows some detail others don't

I always run through a colleague how I have done X, not that they don't know, but they might not know, or they might suggest improvements, either way more than one person gets informed

Especially in business, you might have to run the same process dozens of time with the same people until it is clear how it is going to be implemented

Accusing someone of explaining too much seems like overreacting. A more worrying problem would be under explaining

Is it possible for you to keep most or all of your communication in writing, via email or chat, where it can be produced by either side if there is a complaint?

As soon as I have any communication issues, I go straight to this. There needs to be records of communication.

Avoid miserable people. In office just smile, nod, and agree.

This will probably sound inconsiderate, but it's impossible to "judge" the scenario here without hearing more than just your side. I'm only mentioning this disclaimer to indicate that in the following my intention is not to judge (even tho it looks like it contains judgements), it's to simply give you perspective and ideas / strategy thinking about the situation and what to do. Second disclaimer: also, without really looking deeply and clearly at the situation I can't have a great read on it, so liberally intersperse the following with plenty of modal language like "probably", rather than the authoritative unequivocal tone in which it is delivered for brevity and clarity. Third disclaimer: I'm not giving you advice or telling you what to do, there's no karmic connection between us and I have no responsibility for what you do, what you do is up to you, and how you interpret what I say is up to you. If you take this info in with those disclaimers, you are welcome to it! Otherwise you cannot have it! :P

"She has many friends in the department I have none". This to me is the clearest indicator of what is going on: She's just exercising her social dominance; This is not about you; She has decided she doesn't like you^0, and there's probably not much you can do about it, because: even if you had the means to communicate clearly to resolve any misunderstanding, she may be set on framing you as at-fault, so she won't care. And second, if she is just flexing her social muscles and power here, she will easily turn all her friends against you, and will certainly rely on rumours and accusations. She just wants a scalp, to show her power, that she can execute someone if she wants to. This gives her a sense of power and control, which is really important for her to feel at ease. So you were, by virtue of your lack of social capital, simply the low hanging fruit. She will leave a trail of such scalps behind her as she attempts to express her social power to bring herself more power and control.

Also if this is the situation, I don't know what you specifically can do--I know I could do some things, but I don't know you. So let me ask you: if this is the situation (for the sake of experiment, assume it is) what is your plan now?

Maybe advice from people who know how to turn a social disadvantage around to their advantage would help, but maybe you need to just take the loss and the lesson here (the lesson is not avoid pissing off toxic people, it's, I think: cultivate relationships to ensure you don't lack social power and make yourself a target) and move on to greater things.

^1: You may have done something to irk her or maybe not, I don't know. But even if something you did pissed her off, you didn't do something wrong objectively. It may have been her wilful misinterpretation of something you did, in other words, she seeks fault in you simply to create a fake justification for her pre-existing dislike of you that that she doesn't understand, and then can use as a way to "lift" her personal dislike to the level of social censure with a fake story of your badness; or maybe she genuinely thought you were shading her, when actually it wasn't like that at all for you; or maybe she is simply a predator picking on you because you are weak and she is strong (socially). It's not that she dislikes you, it's simply that she needs a scalp, and you are the low hanging fruit.

Get in front of it and go tell HR yourself now, before she does.

Get an employment lawyer asap

I have aspergers too.

It's hard for me to comment on the specifics of this situation because social dynamics are complex. Given you have aspergers it's entirely possible you're doing things wrong without knowing, but it's also possible this person being unreasonable.

All I can really do is give advice based on what I've learnt as a fellow aspie who once lost their job for being an aspie in the workplace.

Firstly, you shouldn't be trying to make friends at work. If people ask you personal questions you should always redirect the conversation to something work related. But more importantly, you should never (under any circumstances) ask people personal questions – especially females. The reason you shouldn't ask personal questions is because if you're aspie you probably struggle to maintain eye contact and you probably speak in an unusual, perhaps awkward monotoned way. Asking a women, "what did you do on the weekend?" without eye contact and with typical aspie inflections will often be preserved as creepy. And it's possible you might also just look be a bit weird which can add to this. For example, it's quite common for aspies to have strange fashion sense, or look greasy because they haven't washed for a week. Basically everything about you could be sending red flags to this women to the point that it doesn't really matter what you're actually saying to her, the main issue is simply that you're communicating as a person with aspergers.

Secondly, do not engage in casual group conservations, avoid office parties, and do not joke about anything. If you can, even attempt to avoid laughing at jokes or behaviour you find funny. Humour is extremely dangerous for aspies. Causal settings like group chats during lunch, or Christmas office parties tend to be full of humour. Humour is often controversial, but as an aspie you probably don't have a good sense for what's appropriate. Even if you believe you know the rules, you should assume you don't. There's simply too much subtlety in humour and what's appropriate will vary massively on minor variations in context. You might know how to act 95% of the time, but that 5% can cost you your job.

Finally, be extremely polite. Obviously there's the basic stuff like saying please and thank you, but also just acknowledging people for doing good work or being helpful around the office can go a long way. People might not understand you, but if they just know you well enough to know you're a pleasant and polite person in my experience they'll treat you much better. Obviously don't go over the top with compliments – I'm assuming you're at least socially adjusted enough to be able to say "thanks" to someone without coming across as weird here.

In regards to this specific situation, I'd suggest you avoid this person as much as possible and if you interact with them ensure it's purely work-related. But also make sure you do this while being as polite as you possibly can be to them. If you look like you're avoiding them and shutting down them down when they attempt to communicate with you you also won't be doing yourself any favours. That's why you always engage, act polite, but always redirect conversation to something work related.

But that's just my advice, as one aspie to another.

I would issue an email memo to her along the lines of: "Due to your allegation against me which stem from a lack of understanding and empathy for my medical condition, I have been advised* to limit my interaction with you to emails, texts, and chats which can be saved and referenced later. You're a valuable contributor to the team and success on this project would be difficult without your input. I hope you understand the need for this precaution and I look forward to our continued professional collaboration."

*You don't really need to say it was some rando on Hacker News who advised you... though if you're really concerned I would be proactive in contacting to HR first rather than being the one to react to an accusation. Citing your Asperger's and that she's being insensitive to your handicap, which is deeply hurtful and is leading to a hostile work environment might work too... allegations can go both ways and I presume you can document your Asperger's and she might not be able to document anything. Of course, you might want to get REAL counsel rather than just mine.

I agree with the spirit of this. I just think it’s a bit heavy handed in the communication. It will be perceived as aggressive and that’s not a good look for a man that has just been accused of sexism. Getting HR involved and framing it that you need reasonable accommodation to help you work with your Asperger’s and keep from offending teammates could be a good path.

Heavy-handed directness is a symptom of Aspberger's no? Personally I think that would be a super-power but I'm not an overly-sensitive person looking for validation of my existence at work.

It really is a handicap and not a superpower. Resources in groups are given to people that are liked, not those who deserve them. Maintaining positive relationships is the best way to secure resources. Using aggressive communication is going to shut down other people and they will not give you anything. Without resources, your work product will be limited, less relevant and likely to be discarded after you leave.

I apologize if my lack of understand of the condition was taken as a flippant comment. Your response only bolsters the suggestion that the OP needs to assert a need for reasonable accommodation from narrow-minded prejudiced people who might interpret his actions as sexist or in any way reflective of a less than favorable view of his coworkers in general and the one in particular.

This might cause more tension then needed.

At least it will be mutual and documented. As a person who rarely shares conflicts with others I can tell you that people who do that may go to great lenghts as if it was an afternoon walk and feel great about it. If someone takes out a knife of vague accusation, they’re not your potential friend.

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