Ask HN: How do you turn off your problem solving brain with people you love?

My wife is a therapist. When a patient is in a bad, toxic, and maybe even violent relationship, the solution is often a breakup. The patient already knows this. It doesn't help to tell the patient just to breakup. They are here because they lack the strength to go through it. Her job is to help them with that and not state the obvious.

I am a father of two kids. They often have problems that can be solved really quickly, but the problem is often just a symptom of emotions, and your job is to help them go through those emotions so they learn how to handle them.

Ideally, he would have just said 'I don't want your help I just want to complain' ... but part of his frustration is probably due to a feeling of lack of control, in addition to needing a prescription. Having a child step in and provide assistance will likely amplify that emotion.

Sometimes people just want to complain. I know I've complained and then been surprised/annoyed when people actually stepped in to help (because I really just wanted to vent my irritation and move on).

Next time you feel an impulse to assist I'd recommend just directly asking the person whether they are just venting or whether they would like your help.

Were you actually "problem solving", or could it have been more like being a back-seat driver?

> the simple solution being to just change the pharmacy

Is that, in fact simple? Seems like it would require contacting the doctor/prescriber, some setup with the new pharmacy, it's not the "default" pharmacy so it would be an unfamiliar process for the doctor / patient who are used to the existing one, possibly different pricing / insurance issues, and no doubt the new / other pharmacy also has issues sometimes, etc. Are you, in fact, an expert on pharmacies, more so than the doctor, or the patient in this scenario?

Just trying to point out some possible reasons why you may not have actually being as helpful as you might think, and may not in fact have all of the relevant information to hand when making your suggestion.

If someone has a problem with CVS, saying "you should use Walgreens" is not actually that helpful, because Walgreens sucks sometimes too...

Complain with him, of course. I’m sure you have a bevy of criticism about modern healthcare to offer. In the midst of this, you can pepper in your solutions beneath waves of empathy. People these days, even older men, are desperately in need of someone to relate to them intimately. Sometimes this can be a problem. But in this instance it sounds like it’s warranted. I think that jumping directly to the solution to another person’s problems may deprive them of the need to be heard as a human being and not a bug.

Most people just want to be listened to. If you truly want to help just being a sympathetic ear is “the solution“, not what you imagine the “logical approach” to be.

Most people hate being given advice they didn’t ask for. Even when they ask they probably don’t actually want advice and probably won’t take it.

If I feel super compelled I phrase it something like this: “Do you mind if I tell you what worked for me in that situation?” And I don’t push it at all.

I and many others are in the same camp. The reality is people like solving the problem themselves.

In your case I would said (and in the passion of the moment I cannot think this clearly): Dad that is awful that the pharmacy you are REQUIRED to use sucks. And that it is against the law for you to change it....

Yeah not very subtle, but you get the idea, lead the horse to water by being sympathetic and emphasis the non solution but leaving them at the water they need to drink.

I kept on hitting this situation with my wife, so we came up with a "magic" question:

"Do you want reassurance, potential solutions, or my honest feelings?"

It works really well for us!

[1] https://taylor.town/magic-question

"Honest feelings" never goes well with my wife, never :). Just saying. The other person has to be able to take it as well.

That's really unfortunate. You deserve to be heard, and your wife deserves honesty.

I'd recommend doing a few sessions of couples' therapy so that you can both feel safe talking to each other. And remember, it's easier to do therapy before any resentment builds up. Schedule a session like you'd schedule a routine doctor's appointment.

And if others can't handle your honest opinions, you may need to work on your communication skills. I highly recommend reading How to Win Friends and Influence People :)

Good thing is that I am usually honest anyway even though it backfires 90% of the time. Thats just the way I am wired. I cannot sugarcoat which is a huge issue sometimes. I have read that book btw but I am just wired to be "give it straight".

To be fair though, I have learned how to tone it down a bit even if I need to be honest. It is not the WHAT but the HOW you say it. That is something I m working on.

I struggle with this tremendously. I am always looking to "solve the problem" for anyone that I am in conversation with. I am looking to help "optimize". It has taken me a long time to realize that you need to keep it to yourself and most people don't care about being optimized. Heck, I even fight with my wife at times when she takes the long cut while driving. Her argument "do you really care if it takes me an extra 2 mins". When you think about it, it makes sense to stop trying to be so helpful.

It is a curse and boon poeple like us are born with. Boon when you apply just to yourself. Curse when you try to do it to others who don't ask for it :)

It's not uncommon to slip into problem solving when listening would be the right thing to do. Often it's men 'solving' feelings for women, but as with your situation not always. I bite my tongue sometimes and force myself to listen harder.

I most definitely struggle with this as well - a friend sharing their issues can result in instant solutions streaming out or even sleepless night “solving” their problems!

I haven’t completely gotten away from the habit but I now make sure I ask at least 3-5 questions about how they’re going to address the issue, details or how they feel - it helps me slow down the stream of solutions and more often than not they already have a solution of sort!

Yes, I struggle with it.

Slowly I've been learning how to understand people rather than focusing on ideas...the who I know rather than what I know.

Engineering is the art of finding a solution to the customer's problem within the customers budget and timeline.

It is solving the problem the customer asked the engineer to solve.

If they didn't ask me to solve the problem, they are not my customer (so to speak). Instead they are expressing their emotions. Then the right solution is often just listening...

Good luck.

If unsolicited advice makes him mad, your dad has anger issues. You did fine. If you don't want him to get mad, don't interact.

The real question is: Why does your dad have anger issues? Chemical imbalance? Drug abuse during youth? Genetic?

>Does anyone else struggle with this?

I gently remind my father that getting upset doesn't help his situation. Over time his handling of inconveniences has improved. Your mileage may vary.

Always assume the person is looking for empathy and only give advice when specifically asked to do so.

Its a rule that I try to remind myself of constantly when talking to anyone.

Yes this ^

I used to (probably still do, but used to as well!) have the same issue of trying to solve the problem. Now I just ask directly if they want any suggestions. Or, ask more questions. This comes across better and also may fill you in on important context!

“Before we start, do you want me to listen or do you want me to help solve this?”

Once answered, take a deep breath, do what was asked, and manage any emotions you have.

Turn your problem solving brain to solving a problem of you not being aware of social, personal and psychological clues and implications of a conversation.

Case closed.

Problem solvers + Problem creators seem like a good match. Nothing needs to change. Just need more time.

"It's not about the nail"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4EDhdAHrOg

People don't want their problems solving, they want to whine.

It helps to start a conversation like this with "do you want me to listen or to offer help"

In this situation, removing the nail isn't an acceptable solution. Otherwise, she would have done it.

And what makes it more irritating is that the solution giver isn't even going to face most of the pain of implementing the solution. It's condescending to assume that she hasn't noticed the obvious source of the problem. He doesn't offer to remove it or share the risk.

As time goes by, she accepts the nail as a part of her life, just like OP's father has accepted a dysfunctional medical system.

I don't know. "Do you want me to listen" sounds weird to me. I would rather just listen already and be like "I hear you" and shut up. If they want more help, they will ask.