Hacker News Reader

Comment by everdrive | Hacker News Reader

It's different because there's a long-standing precedent that you don't need to install a smartphone app to use a store.

View on HN

Sure, but Amazon Go is, as the comment you replied to states, a store which literally is built to require an app to use. This argument is thrown out the window when you shop at a store which explicitly and from its inception has required this.

As the commenter stated,

> So then why attempt to go to a store that’s entirely based on using the app?

Because it wasn't clear I needed to use an app (and therefore would require access to my password which I didn't have on my phone) since I was just trying to return a product.

Amazon lists lockers in buildings with controlled access as drop off points as well. It’s up to you to confirm you have access to the locker.

If you need an app to enter that store and you need to enter the store to return an item, then it’s pretty clear you need an app to return an item at that store.

They didn't say I needed it.

It’s as if you didn’t read my comment at all.

> If you need an app to enter that store and you need to enter the store to return an item, then it’s pretty clear you need an app to return an item at that store.

You don't need an app to enter the store. You need an app to shop at the store. Presumably many classes of person enter the store for various non-shopping reasons without needing the app. It's not beyond the bounds of reason to imagine that for the non-shopping purpose of returning an unrelated item you may not need the shopping app to enter the store -- or, indeed, to imagine that for the product return flow the shoppers' entrance may not factor into the equation at all.

(I don't have a horse in this race, I just don't think you can usually apply the transitive property to the real world.)

> Amazon lists lockers in buildings with controlled access as drop off points as well. It’s up to you to confirm you have access to the locker.

I don’t think this makes the point you think it makes.

> If you need an app to enter that store and you need to enter the store to return an item, then it’s pretty clear you need an app to return an item at that store.

“Excuse me, you need to install the app on your phone to enter the store”, the store manager said to the paramedic responding to a call of an unconscious senior citizen on the floor of the Amazon Go store.

I think a big problem is that it shouldn't require an app to use.

There are plenty of cashierless stores which work just like any other store. They aren't exactly doing anything groundbreaking when it comes to that. They could also just put a regular payment terminal at the exit - the whole magic camera stuff would work just fine with it.

The end result is that they created an artificially cumbersome store concept, which does not provide a real benefit to the user. No wonder it isn't popular.

> I think a big problem is that it shouldn't require an app to use.

That’s not the issue that’s being discussed though. It’s a fair criticism, but that’s still irrelevant to the topic of Amazon Go stores requiring them and that you should therefore expect to need one if you want to enter a store.

> No wonder it isn't popular.

I wouldn’t deduce popularity from the closure of the stores. In Seattle at least, the stores had already been “temporarily” closed for a while and are in a fairly high-crime area of the city. [0] At the same time, they’re actively building larger suburban stores [1] which indicates a pivot, but that the format itself is still popular.

They’ve also added it to other venues like Climate Pledge Arena and Lumen Field in Seattle in the form of “Just Walk Out” [2]. You still need an Amazon One account to use it.

[0]: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon-shutters-some-c...

[1]: https://www.winsightgrocerybusiness.com/amp/topics/amazon-go...

[2]: https://justwalkout.com/

So let's say I don't shop at Amazon Go because I just never cared and had no idea what it was. But I am a frequent Amazon.com shopper. I return an Item and it tells me a list of places I can take it. I see Amazon Go listed just like the UPS store. Or just like any other drop location. So I go to the Amazon Go store just assuming it's like every other store in the entire world. Only to find it's closed to me because I didn't bring the app with me. Does that make any sense to people? Why is this so hard to figure out why someone might be confused when they get there to just drop off a goddamn box?

Why don't the people in the store have some flexibility to let you in? God forbid someone besides a computer has to make a decision.

Because if they do they'll probably get in trouble. There are cameras everywhere being monitored by computers and the incident will definitely be flagged somehow. If you steal something, then it's even worse. Why would they risk that? I think that's a minor issue with their drop off listings, which I suspect they will eventually fix.

It's a "member's only" club. This is how they restrict access and dodged the NYC requirement to accept cash payment.

There's a longstanding precedent that you don't need a membership to shop at stores either, but Costco is still highly successful.

At Kroger and Albertsons stores, you might be paying a lot more if you do not use the coupons that are only available in the app.

The coupons, at least for Kroger, are loadable from the website.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com