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Comment by Someone1234 | Hacker News Reader

In typical stores (e.g. Walmart, Target, etc), most of those cameras housings don't contain cameras.

The main issue isn't that cameras are expensive, it is that monitoring that many cameras is expensive/impractical, and automated theft detection systems are still in their infancy. So they just target high value/common areas, and rely on deterrents (like people believing they have a lot of cameras, off-duty cops at the door, and PR around some super secret new technology).

Quite seriously: Stores really need to look into vending machines for certain items. In particular with how advanced Gift Card Theft-Clone-Return Activation fraud is. Thieves have message-boards not dissimilar to this where they can share "pro-tips," and things have become quite sophisticated.

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> most of those cameras housings don't contain cameras

Do you have a source for that?

Because at my local grocery store for example, above the customer service area they have a whole wall of TV's showing the live camera feeds. They're all working.

My local convenience store has the live TV's too, by the cashier.

That’s not evidence that all the camera housings are populated. You’re only seeing the ones with live feeds.

> Do you have a source for that?

I know people who work there.

Your average Walmart has hundreds of camera housings. Every single aisle has a couple. The amount of cabling alone to populate them all simply doesn't exist (as you can often see, it is an open-box ceiling), and monitoring that many cameras is impractical (in particular for a store staffed at BARELY sustainable levels).

Just look at how understaffed the floor of these stores are, then ask yourself why they'd have a disproportionate number of loss-prevention staff working relative to the floor staff. A big store absolutely will have tens of cameras, but even all those may only have a single person for all (or zero persons depending on shifts/staffing).

That being said: Some stores have legitimately rolled out facial recognition to pick up known thieves as they enter the store. But that requires four-ish cameras and the technology is pretty turn-key.

> monitoring that many cameras is impractical

Regardless of how many there are, I believe the point is not to monitor them live but to have recordings if the store wants to bring charges for something.

There are systems to follow the subject. I configured my work’s cameras to show a few key cameras on the live feed, but several more are quietly recording. When we review the footage, I can follow a subject across my entire array of cameras. I can track someone from the point they enter the parking lot with a plate camera.

I had facial recognition in a nightclub over a decade ago. Modern cameras’ capabilities are scary.

> Because at my local grocery store for example, above the customer service area they have a whole wall of TV's showing the live camera feeds.

Right, but is it recording, and does the camera feed go anywhere other than just up to the little monitor showing you the video?

It's like the recording they play once in a while over the PA that says "security to section 3" or whatever. It's theater. Because actual security costs real money and grocery stores are tight margins.

I mostly ignore such things, but Home Depot annoys me. I guess they have a more significant problem with theft, because some aisles have cameras with monitors and a bell that goes DING-DONG when you walk by, just to remind you they think you're a criminal. A few miles away there's even a Home Depot that has a portable tower-of-cameras out in the parking lot with bright lights and flashing blue lights on it, so you can further feel like a criminal. Luckily my local location doesn't feel the need to do that.

> In particular with how advanced Gift Card Theft-Clone-Return Activation fraud is

Completely self-inflicted problem, happy to see such schadenfreude unfold. There's already a gift card that's pretty much immune to fraud (or at the very least makes fraud the bank's problem): money.

Gift cards are horrible waste and scam and ultimately only benefit the store at the expense of the buyer or the recipient of the card - you're turning good, actual cash, in something that's less valuable because now it has usage restrictions on them.

From what I've read of Amazon Go's technology, literally every square inch of ceiling in them is occupied by some piece of technology to implement the cashierless checkout.

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