First Impressions of Bluesky's Brand New iOS App
notes.ghed.in
notes.ghed.in
It is owned and will be driven by a private company and it’s desire for profitability, ActivityPub is an open standard that has been around for ~5 years and battle tested and already in use across different platforms.
As for why people might want to use it instead of ActivityPub, I think it's just... different from ActivityPub. Even though ActivityPub is an available option I don't see why it should be the last word.
Bluesky's answer is this
> Account portability is the major reason why we chose to build a separate protocol. We consider portability to be crucial because it protects users from sudden bans, server shutdowns, and policy disagreements. Our solution for portability requires both signed data repositories and DIDs, neither of which are easy to retrofit into ActivityPub. The migration tools for ActivityPub are comparatively limited; they require the original server to provide a redirect and cannot migrate the user's previous data.
> Other smaller differences include: a different viewpoint about how schemas should be handled, a preference for domain usernames over AP’s double-@ email usernames, and the goal of having large scale search and discovery (rather than the hashtag style of discovery that ActivityPub favors).
I think this will have the opposite effect. Account portability means that being banned on one site can ban you on another if you try to use the same ID. Being persistently recognized across accounts seems like a net-negative for all of these things.
Mastodon is worse because your data is in the server owner’s hands. At least with Bluesky your identity and server are separate so you still have your data.
I imagined trying to explain to my mom why she'd have to signup for Mastadon again because the server she signed up with is gone or she got on one of the massive blacklists for engaging with the 'wrong' accounts.
Not to be overly cynical, but I just don't care. Things change. When mega-corps and investors come knocking with 10-figure checks... 99.9% of humans will cash out. It's human nature. I've invested my time and energy in many things that have been taken over and destroyed by bad/incompetent actors, virtually all of which had promising starts, or I wouldn't have gotten involved.
Page and Brin explicitly spelled out how advertising could change the incentives of a search engine. That didn't stop them from selling out immediately and letting the VCs install a CEO to 'businessify' the company.
I can’t predict the future. We may screw it up. I’m trying to protect the community from us if we do.
I imagine that that's the exact reason why for example advertisers will opt for bluesky over mastodon immediately, under the assumption that the reach would be the same.
"We already have a protocol."
"I don't know about this new upstart's motives."
I think it's good to have competing protocols at first. Platforms will eventually consolidate on one for a while like they did AP until something new comes along. I know the BlueSky people considered building on AP, so I'm curious to hear what it lacked that they think they can improve on.
It could be that some new platform enabled by that new protocol drives a transition away from AP the way Mastodon did with OStatus.
All mastodon clients I have seen involved logging in to the foreign server and/or copy/pasting handles. If this can just solve that it already removes critical friction.
Mastodon team should have made own browser extensions a long time ago, now the community is working to make this easier. I use one called StreetPass [1], but it still is a bit barebones, and doesn't yet help with following accounts accross servers. It does make discovering accounts nice.
What you bring up is a big one. Another big one for me is search. I used Twitter search all the time. For local things like "what're those sirens I hear in my neighborhood", to cultural zeitgeist like "who is this artist performing on SNL", to using it as a quasi-Google.
That's the problem here: there have been scraping efforts before, but they always receive a tidal wave of community backlash.
For a more thorough explanation
https://www.secjuice.com/mastodon-child-porn-pedophiles/
And for a github discussion where some of the Mastodon devs and hosts discussed this at length
'Broken' is an understatement. It is defective 'by design' and eternally a problem that they can never solve. It is not early days either.
Hence why Twitter is still unmatched with the 220M+ daily active users.
The official Mastodon client accepts a web URL in the search box, to a profile on another server.
I usually follow people based on them mentioning their handle on podcasts, or linking to their feed from their profile on another website.
So somebody being confused about the differences doesn't surprise me at all.
My feeling was, in the end, clear: he wanted a "decentralised protocol" on which he had full power (aka "VC-style decentralisation").
You have to keep in mind that those successful in the valley know only one kind of thinking: raise money, get users, sell off. They can’t grasp decentralisation other than as a nice marketing term to add to their product (and, as Ripple demonstrated during the Cryptobubble, they are completely right when it comes to make tons of money with shitty tech).
To my knowledge, acknowledgement of ActivityPub came after the huge Mastodon burst caused by Elon Musk. It’s more a "oh shit, we are not the first" kind of reaction.
Also, you don’t simply design a decentralised protocol behind closed doors then expect everybody to adopt it. You need to be transparent, to discuss in the open. People need to know who is in charge and why. They also need to know every single decision. Decentralisation cannot be done without open source paradigms. That’s the very point of it.
I think we can safely assume that Jack has simply hit his mental glass ceiling. He doesn’t get it. He doesn’t have the mental model to get it. He will probably never get it (he became a billionaire by "not getting it" so there’s no reason for him to change). The whole project is simply him throwing money at a few developers telling him what he expect to hear in order to get pay.
Also, you don’t simply design a decentralised protocol behind closed doors then expect everybody to adopt it. You need to be transparent, to discuss in the open. People need to know who is in charge and why. They also need to know every single decision. Decentralisation cannot be done without open source paradigms.
So... that's pretty much what Bluesky did.
The whole project is simply him throwing money at a few developers telling him what he expect to hear in order to get pay.
Ironically, it looks like the Bluesky people are not telling him what he wants to hear (Bitcoin Bitcoin Bitcoin) so now he's backing Nostr. And if Jack has really cut Bluesky loose we should stop blaming them for the (considerable) sins of the father.
I don’t think Blue Sky’s app is more decentralized that Mastodon currently.
So I interpret your point as being: the reason to use Blue Sky’s app (or another new app with AT protocol) is that the protocol, in the future will be better. I agree with the author that I see no reason for a user to choose this over Mastodon at the moment.
Everyone loves attention and wants to get their words heard, and this will happen when you have only few words to use.
E.g. Twitter is not for really for general people to provide content, it is mainly for those with large audience already. And they want attention.
I happen to enjoy political banter on Twitter.
There is. The algorithm decides what you see and not see. If someone has already larger follower list, it is likely that their posts will appear to others feeds whom are not following them, if the post causes strong interactions.
Soon you will be in vicious cycle, since things get quickly personal, as there is no room to articulate anything properly, and you need to win this conversation with few words. Writing well articulated multi-post replies won't get much attention, as they usually don't rise emotions for masses, and algorithm won't pick them anyway as attention is not in single post.
In general, my high level note is kind of non-specific, that I am extremely hestiant to govern by fear, that too often it generalized specific niche behaviors while ignoring very positive healthy aspects of the subject. Fear without demonization is difficult to pull off, but I can confess, this is a bit of a slippery slope argument. Still, I far prefer regulation based on positive behaviors, based on better lights.
There's a lot of really good comments, challenges & issues you'be raised here. Im not trying to refute here, but there's a lot of things Im not certain on or have comments on.
> When your word amount is strictly limited, you cannot really discuss about things.
I've never felt this limit. I quite like having a series of replies, where I can break up my responses into different pieces. And I like how people can reply to individual parts of my reply. It makes it clear how people align with the various pieces of a discussion, rather than writers and readers having to figure that out for themselves.
The constraint on size creates a much richer structure of information that greatly aids discussion, in my view.
> Algorithm-based platforms pick usually posts based on extreme ends.
Im not sure how longer posts changes the algorithms fairly blind desire to drive engagement, which yes, can exacerbate/amplify extreme positions.
> If someone says something you don't like, you are more likely to like or share a reply, which somehow outsmarts and counters this original post. And as your word amount is limited, you will need to use stronger words to get attention and rise emotions on people. You are rewarded for expressing extreme opposite in a smart way.
Feeling very dualist on this. I heavily agree & disageee. This is a pretty interesting section to me, good challenge.
I think we overascribe how much people tailor their toots to get amplified.
Brevity is the soup of wit, because it feels good: the simple appeal of something small & compact that makes sense. We're not writing short & hot because we are forced to. We're doing it because we can reduce the situation down, provide a neutron-star dense distillation of perspective, a place to see the dielectic from. That is enormously rewarding to compact the idea & concerns & reply, to pull off a real view, briefly.
But it of course risks reductionism, and it doesnt leave a lot of explanation, or acknowledge the subtleties, or meet in the middle.
I still have hard time seeing post-size as having a strong relation to the specified problem here. We can make longer posts, with threads, and do... when the situation calls for it.
> Writing well articulated multi-post replies won't get much attention, as they usually don't rise emotions for masses, and algorithm won't pick them anyway as attention is not in single post.
I dont think allowing longer posts will change this dynamic in any way. Long posts are less appealing & less popular, broken up across multi-replies or not.
The way I can see myself being wrong about this is that upvotes are distributed over a wider range of posts, rather tham concentrated into a single post.
But there's two other counter-factors. Often on HN I run into comments where Im absolutely loving the post, so happy to see something expressed so well. But then it takes a turn. Something goes off the rails or it uses a bad argument or comes to a bad conclusion. Being too big is huge risk.
Also, for a long thread, many people will have multiple upvotes. There wont be a single comment with massive upvotes, but in aggregate the thread probably has many more upvotes total. If the algorithms arent properly looking across threads to promote & surface, that doesnt seem like it should mean changing the medium to adjust to the algorithm, it seems like changing the algorithm to understand the medium should also be a considered possibility.
You probably get larger audience on a single post, which causes bigger emotions in people.
pbpaste | wc -c
155If I wanted to read 10k long messages, I'd go look up blogs.
Post migration is very important and is a part of the decentralization.
Not sure if the author posted it here or not, but it seems like at least somebody decided to share the article with the entire community here, and I'm not sure why you'd assume that anyone who happened to click the article here would already know the details.
How will Bluesky solve that problem?
I don't think the signup needs to be complicated.
To avoid (more) confusion, I replaced it with “half-baked”.
Obviously depending on your attitude towards ad tech, you may like or dislike it. However, if everything still (eventually) follows money as it used to be, and Twitter's 5 billion ad revenue (or more if you believe FB is shrinking too) wants to go elsewhere, ATP is offering a viable solution while Mastodon does not (at least yet).
Also, you can be @example.com if you want. You don’t need to be a user on a server like @me@example.com.
A couple weeks ago I wrote about Nostr too: https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2023/nostr/
I'm really comfortable with Mastodon/ActivityPub. My personal profile is in a public instance[0], and for my Portuguese-written site I'm hosting a Microblog[1]. It's just great.
[0] https://hachyderm.io/@ghedin [1] https://social.manualdousuario.net
It should be clear by this point that "being owned by a private company" is not a disadvantage. If the Bluesky team nails the onboarding experience, then Mastodon/ActivityPub will remain a niche service.
https://bsky.app/support/privacy
FWIW mastodon never asked me.
Somebody else could build an app for Bluesky that did ask, the same as somebody could in theory build an RSS feed reader that asks for contacts.