Does this apply to Germany during WWII?
That being said, nobody is fooled by the ad-reductio distraction of "both governments do bad things". China is now (since Aug. '22) accused of serious human rights violations by the United Nations for their treatment of the Uighur population. Someone approved of it, and it's very likely the the current regime is aware of it. None of this stuff is up for debate, or diluted when you mention the US' own failings. It's just extremely embarrassing for China, who wants to be treated like a respected Western superpower, but can't own up to it's mistakes when they do slip up. They won't acknowledge Tiananmen Square, they won't let people debate Hong Kong, they won't deny the Uighur extermination, and now they're refusing to let the global stage investigate the origin site of the worst pandemic in a century. You can see why people would draw their own conclusions here.
Even if all of this was propaganda vs propaganda (which it isn't, but I'll entertain in good faith), China is still losing. Despite their authoritarian grasp on information, they can't control the global perception of them. It's the ultimate insecurity, and incompatible with the global ideals of information freedom. Again, even if you are right, and western affairs are controlled by a mysterious free-speech cabal/shadow-government, I don't see how it changes China's disadvantage on the global stage. It took a fraction of the world's military forces to repel Russia from Ukraine, preventing a sea-based invasion of Taiwan is probably easier than the average NATO wargaming exercise. And then China would be similarly disgraced, and forced to rectify their impulsive actions with a world that doesn't want to be a part of them. If they want to carry out their reunification plan, it would destroy them.
That they are not, for a fiscal treason, is an absolute travesty.
We should - all - be demanding that our trading partners stand up for the things we believe in.
To sweep a genocide or abhorrent human rights record under the table - without even attempting to make a comment - is a sign of weakness, that every country has. For profit. Personally, my standards are higher than making a profit with one group, especially when there are always more groups.
No country is perfect, but shouldn't we try to convince others and as such, hold ourselves to a higher standard?
And yet, the US actually has allies. After all the crap the US has done, it still has allies. What? Why?
Oh, because it's all about economics and power.
Oh, because it's all about economics and power.
Interesting thesis. At the same time, China has few allies. Does that mean China has a poor economy and little power?
Maybe it's news to you but China has been poor for nearly 150+ years. In the past, China had the highest GDP in the world. But the opium trade, western wars, caused it to become as poor as it did. It's only in the last 10 years or so that China's economy has been big enough to garner more allies.
Even so, maybe propaganda has convinced you that China has no allies? For example, 37 countries signed a letter supporting China's anti-domestic terrorism tactics in Xinjiang.
Part of that is that the last imperial dynasty to rule China was not Chinese, but ethnically Manchurian. A lot of problems came from that. Granted, that does not make it okay that the West helped carve them up. But a lot of their external issues in the past few centuries have internal root.
If the Han and the Manchurians could not get along, how is that the West's fault?
WRT "terrorism" in Xinjiang: I think non-Han minorities might have a different opinion than the official Beijing line.
So China does have a friend in the US. But Xi doesn't.
Surely, between:
- The Armenian Genocide
- The Holocaust
- The Holdomor
- Pogroms
- Apartheid regimes
- Purges of the Bourgeoisie
- One Child Policy
I find it hard to think that the US (With it's many, many fuck-ups) is the only, let alone the -worst- guilty party in the last 100 years.
O wait, if we only counted the last 100 years the 'great leap forward' would suddenly look a lot less great... wouldn't it?
Slavery and native American genocides are pretty bad - as well as the countless countries US has invaded/bombed.
But anyways, are we trying to estimate which country has done more bad in the last 300 years? China or US? And are you willing to become more pro-China if we conclude that the US has done more bad?
https://www.wfpusa.org/articles/1-millionth-ton-american-whe...
Any student of history would understand that China colonizing the north american continent would have been much much worse for Native Americans. There currently are slaves in China right now.
Are we now blaming China for genocide of Native Americans too?
Please remember that comments on HN are meant to be in good faith towards the discussion of the article, and regardless of any factual inconsistencies that may or may not be present in your statements, they are off topic and potentially trolling.
Hopefully it will be ended in North America sometime soon (fingers crossed).
‘Slavery by any name is wrong’: the push to end forced labor in prisons
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/sep/27/slavery-loop...
Slavery and the U.S. Prison System
https://www.globalpolicyjournal.com/blog/06/05/2021/slavery-...
Contemporary slavery in the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_slavery_in_the_Un...
China, currently in 2023, is all the things the above poster says it is. A sabre rattling dictatorship that is intentionally oppressing its minorities. Chinese people are awesome but the Chinese state can go to hell.
This isn't to excuse Trump's sinophobia. He can go to hell too.
Chinese people support the CCP. Most Chinese citizens are pro-CCP. So if you have a negative view of the CCP, then you should have a negative view of Chinese too.
But you're probably wondering why Chinese people support the CCP? It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now? Makes no sense.
But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it. Chinese people have been overthrowing governments for millenniums.
I disagree with the (admittedly large) subset of Chinese people who support the CCP, but me having a negative view of them as people doesn't follow from that.
> It's because the CCP improved the lives of 1.4 billion people and is still improving their lives. GDP per capita went from $317 in 1990 to $12,000+ in 2022. And why would they overthrow the CCP now?
I didn't claim that the CCP did nothing good and was all bad. There's clearly far worse alternatives than the CCP. Also, it's not accurate to attribute all of China's current success to the current CCP. A lot of it was the seeds planted thanks to the economic liberalization in the preceding few decades when the CCP was more liberal than it is today.
> But if the CCP needs to be overthrown and is no longer working for Chinese people, they will overthrow it.
Authoritarian states create mechanisms that make them difficult to overthrow.
That's funny. Chinese people support CCP. Chinese people want CCP to stay in power. CCP is made of Chinese people, and reflects quite a bit of Chinese culture. You want the CCP to go to hell. But you think Chinese people are awesome.
Are you just trying to be politically correct? It's ok to say you hate Chinese people and Chinese culture.
You underestimate the power the people have over the government. When Chinese are pissed off, they will go on the streets and protest and demand changes. Just check the riots over banks and real estate there recently.
And why does the CCP want Taiwan back? It’s because their people demand Taiwan back.
I find it hilarious when people say they love Chinese people but hate the CCP. Either they’re disingenuous because they dislike both or they don’t understand China.
> I’ve lived in China and have friends there. People there aren’t told to love the CCP.
Again, managed dissent. The real dissenters are in prison or worse.
> It’s not like North Korea.
I already said there's worse alternatives than the CCP. That doesn't absolve it from being an authoritarian dictatorship.
> I find it hilarious when people say they love Chinese people but hate the CCP. Either they’re disingenuous because they dislike both or they don’t understand China.
I already explained this to you, so either you are being disingenuous or you are determined to have a monologue. I am ending it here because this is a low value conversation.