I almost exclusively use FDroid, it's an amazing project. But I've never seen an app with so many issues
I almost exclusively use FDroid, it's an amazing project. But I've never seen an app with so many issues
Let's see: search for ssh (with the intent of finding an ssh client, that's not too far fetched?), these are the top matches: HACS Hackspace Access Control System, KOReader Ebook reader, AVNC VNC client, FTPClient an (s)ftp client, Linux command library, MultiVNC, SshDaemon.
So that last one is the only one which effectively has SSH in the name, and then I guess that FTPClient would be something I might want to see as well, and then the VNC clients perhaps.
So maybe 'ssh client' then? Yeah no, KOReader still first, then AVNC, FTPClient, SSHDaemon, ....
Ok, I get it, search is hard, and I assume they intentionally didnt want to sort by number of downloads (?), but what it does now is close to useless.
Top results for 'ssh' in Foxy Droid: ConnectBot (SSH client), SshDaemon (ssh server), RSSAid (RSSHub... nothing to do with SSH), Easy SSHFS (Sshfs with ssh client), Trigger (open doors via SSH), FiSSH (SSH authentication via fingerprint), TeamBot (SSH client), SimpleSSHD (SSH server), etc.
Being buggy is only one aspect, the other was the annoying change of UI that presents apps in rows of large, gawky icons instead of the previous efficient rows of title text each headed by a small icon (as say in Windows 'List' mode).
Unfortunately, this leaves me stuck on ancient version F-Droid 0.102.3.
When looking for an app this new large-icons mode is much less efficient, especially so if one's in a hurry and doesn't know what the icon represents (as one would expect with a new program).
I'd have thought the large-icon disease would have remained quarantined within the Microsoft and Apple worlds but unfortunately the contagion's now spread to Linux and even infected the F-Droid app on Android. It ought to be resisted on the grounds that there are so many new icons about that their once great benefit has been deprecated (text again conveying a deeper understanding).
I've no objection to those who find large icons an acceptable work framework but developers shouldn't change UIs just on a whim. If they so desire a change let them provide it as an option—i.e. a UI revamp should allow users to select the old one as an option (we've all seen this UI nonsense before with MS Windows, the F-Droid app is about the last place I'd have expected to get infected).
This story has subsequently appeared on HN, it seems absolutely apt to include it here as it's directly relevant to the F-Droid UI matter: https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2023/03/06/understanding-...
When so many other clients have sprung up in response to F-Droid's painfully awkward UI one would reckon they'd rethink the change. This is yet another another instance of where developers think that they know best or where they impose their own personal preferences on users but get it completely wrong.
I note that it's not just the number of newly-available clients that have solidified my view, I was very surprised by the number of upvotes I received to my post. Seems many of us think alike.
F-Droid people please take note.
[1] https://www.f-droid.org/en/packages/com.machiav3lli.fdroid/
This is the reason I use NeoStore to install apps like NewPipe on my family members' phones. Before, when Newpipe broke they wouldn't know how to update it, now it just stays updated all the time.
0. https://www.xda-developers.com/android-14-new-apis-app-store...
I also don't think an alternative-to-the-alternative is the right solution. I didn't even know NeoStore or Aurora existed before now, and frankly I don't want to know the difference. F-Droid is already extremely niche, compared to the Play Store. It needs to play every strong card it has available at hand, rather than proliferate the fracturing.
I haven't rooted an Android device since 2014.
I just did some lazy research for the version of LineageOS I'm using. Am I missing something, or is it normal to find the procedure confusing and somewhat scary? There is github.com/LineageOS/Superuser and github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk, it seems I need to build Superuser from source (yikes); Magisk from F-Droid wants to install a newer version from Github (but that doesn't work); the version that works wants to patch a ROM file, which I don't know where to get from... The app lists changelogs rather than instructions.
I understand it's partly the fault of Android's security architecture, but I wish it was actually manageable for normal people.
The remaining solution was Magisk. Magisk was equally easy to install, but recently deprecated that easy install method so that only patching the ROM file remains (you get that file from the ROM you run, unpack the archive, if you are unlucky you need to unpack a second payload.bin file, https://wiki.lineageos.org/extracting_blobs_from_zips#extrac...). But not only is that more complicated, it also does not persist after a Lineage upgrade, which happens every week, see https://github.com/topjohnwu/Magisk/issues/3820#issuecomment.... Totally crazy for a project not in early alpha.
I want root to properly manage my battery via https://github.com/VR-25/acc ( with ideally https://github.com/MatteCarra/AccA as Magisk module). How ridiculously complicated that is now and that the install procedure is broken without them documenting it soured me quite a bit on Magisk, but I also start to develop some bad feelings about Lineage - because it is them that would be in the best position to provide a simple root solution. But they just refuse it, and even forbid discussing such topics on their subreddit - that alone shows me that the project is very user hostile currently. I doubt with that attitude they can make a turnaround, but I'd be happy to be wrong...
Sadly the other bigger ROMs are to my knowledge not better in this category, neither /e/ with their service suite, nor DivestOS with the passionate developer nor CalyxOS or GrapheneOS with their "security" focus are interested in giving the user full access to their device. Android seems to be a dead end here, real Linux is needed.
(I vouched for your comment, it was hidden, that's normal for new accounts.)
Somehow not surprising to me. Many large open source projects seem to be more about pushing a political agenda of some sort, rather than serving the interests of their users. Especially distributions, as a class of projects, are uniquely positioned to do that, as the role of a systems integrator doubles as the de-facto gatekeeper.
> Sadly the other bigger ROMs are to my knowledge not better in this category, neither /e/ with their service suite, nor DivestOS with the passionate developer nor CalyxOS or GrapheneOS with their "security" focus are interested in giving the user full access to their device.
I have no opinion on any of these except for GrapheneOS, but I totally understand why they wouldn't want the user to root their device - having root is indeed a security nightmare. I wrote about this more extensively in the context of traditional UNIX-like operating systems. I think it's a very good trade-off IF you provide the user with viable alternatives (let's remember, the original goal was to have unattended upgrades).
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32971677
> Android seems to be a dead end here, real Linux is needed.
That was my reflection in 2016, when I changed to SailfishOS full time, and remained the case in 2019, as I switched again, to iOS. I keep an Android device or two around just to keep testing the waters, but for my personal goal of having a usable phone without Google, indeed looks like a dead end.
I've used Fdroid for years, downloaded and updated apps hundreds of times across multiple devices and never encountered a single thing you described.
Death, taxes, and people confidently generalizing from one-off cases of highly unusual experiences.
>I didn't realize the app was still being worked on.
By my count there have been three new updates to F-Droid just this year that were not alpha updates, and if you use F-droid these updates show up. If you use F-Droid, I don't know how you could possibly look at your app updates and not realize that is indeed being developed unless you're in the 99th percentile of highly unusual use cases. And if you're an unusual use case you shouldn't be generalizing from it.
I've used F-Droid for years and my experience matches the gp. I've read many reviews saying similar. Friends to whom I've recommended it have told me similar in person.
It seems yours is the highly unusual experience here.
But let's just observe the claim that F-droid supposedly isn't being updated. You can see that F-droid is being updated if you... look at which apps are being updated. Is looking at which apps are updated also a 'highly unusual experience' ?
I'm sure they work on it in the background and the upgrades do something, but parents experience is still normal and correct.
One of the apps that F-droid updates, is F-droid itself. F-droid has been updated three times this year. When it is updated, these updates are listed both in the notifications and the update section. Someone who claims that F-droid is not being updated is therefore an unreliable narrator.
This clearly shows, to anyone paying attention, that F-droid is indeed being updated, and I don't understand how your comment is responsive to any of this. It's only an internet comment sections that parent commenters experience "is normal and correct" without acknowledging or responding to any of this. This is important because it highlights the respects in with your comment in the parents comment lack of fundamental connection to objective reality and therefore are not reliable diagnoses of what is or is not happening with F Droid.
If looking at notifications in the app is something you're going to dismiss as an unusual experience, then you just don't know what you're talking about, and you shouldn't be positioning yourself as reporting on the normal case of what everyday users experience.
> Someone who claims that F-droid is not being updated is therefore an unreliable narrator.
It seems like you're trying to invent arguments to get mad at as no-one made this claim. The original commenter said two things, neither of which amounted to "F-droid is not being updated". They said:
1. That they "didn't realize the app was still being worked on" - this is just referring to their own perception of updates, not making any hard claim about actual work being done.
2. That it has "been years since the UI update" - this is referring to one specific large update a number of years ago, not to the small incremental updates since.
There's nothing else in their comment claiming lack of updates.
The main claim in their comment is that it's buggy, which can easily be true of an app with frequent updates.
I'm not sure if F-Droid is the buggiest app, but aside from the above 100% percent bug, had all the other issues the previous user mentioned.
(I write this as someone who has experienced nearly every bug mentioned in this thread.)
When they're attempting to present their experience as the typical or characteristic experience, it is indeed helpful to contrast it against other experiences.
If your connection has 0% packet drop then you may never experience an issue
1. Every so often I turn on my tablet or phone and see a notification that fdroid has crashed, asking me to submit the information (I used to, I don't anymore). I wasn't using fdroid recently, I don't leave it open in the background; the only background task it has is fetching update lists and downloading new versions to install later. If it crashes, it loses the downloaded updates.
2. Occasionally fdroid crashes on start, providing the same notification as above. Force-stopping the app and removing the activity from recents is the only way to get past this--if I force stop and restart from recents, it crashes again. If I remove from recents and don't force stop, it crashes again. I'm guessing whatever parameters it launched with are causing the crash to happen again.
3. The background service frequently stops while updating package lists (not while downloading packages). The notification remains. This is regardless of whether the update is manual or automatic; there is no foreground update. At 11:00pm I regularly have a non-dismissable sticky notification, last updated at 5:00am, that fdroid is updating repos. Tapping it does nothing, I have to open the fdroid app, which may or may not crash on opening. If it crashes, the only way to reset the notification is to force-stop it. This is also the only way to open fdroid after such a crash (see #2). While I have no confidence that the crashing issue is fixed, it sounds like the new index is intended to prevent repo updates from taking this long. Personally, I'd prefer to just download an SQLite file directly from a server and just dump that in the app to query.
4. After downloads are complete, the download list frequently doesn't update. I can initiate the install from either the page for that specific app or from the download notification, but the main downloads list just shows that it's still downloading.
5. Not really a bug so much as missing feature: there's no way to do partial update checks. No way to check for updates to a single app without downloading the entire repo. I know there's an update available for X Y Z apps and want to update them on the bus, but because #3, 30 minutes is likely not long enough to do so. There's also no way to check a single repository for updates, and trying to bypass this by toggling that repo off and back on causes fdroid to update all repos in the order they were added. If I want to install an app from a new repo, I have to wait for all my other repos to finish updating first.
6. I have ~10 repos in fdroid. I regularly get a notification that the format is incorrect or the server couldn't be contacted or some such. It doesn't tell me what repo that is. My only option is to go through and toggle all my repos off, enable them one at a time, and
I've mostly given up. I can't get the latest update for apps from the website because fdroid doesn't make that available, I can't install updates automatically because I'm not rooted (and thus can't just trust that it'll eventually succeed in installing). I used to run my own fdroid repo for these apps; I don't anymore, because it's not worth the effort to try and get fdroid to install them.
It's not because I'm using some obscure hardware or ROM; I've had these issues with: Nexus 7 lineage, Nvidia shield lineage, Moto G6, Moto G6 lineage, Samsung A32 stock, Samsung Galaxy Tab S6 stock. Fdroid is usually the first thing I install after getting a new device or after rooting a device; I've had fdroid crash on the third time starting it on a brand new device, before I've done more than enable adb to install fdroid.
*This is _not_ a one-off case, this is an ongoing issue that I've had for years at this point*
Instead, for the few apps I actually care about keeping up to date, I use Obtainium, which checks GitHub releases (among others) instead of fdroid (it can check fdroid's website, but that's not kept up to date). As a bonus, this also allows me to keep track of apps that aren't included in fdroid (mostly Tachiyomi forks). Obtainium can't check for updates for individual apps without fetching and parsing the entire catalog, because fdroid only provides a full catalog (see #5)
As for your numbered points, I would say that a occasionally experienced 1, and never experienced two, three, or four.
I've used F-Droid on a Moto G, a Moto G3, Moto Z 2 3 and 4, a Moto E, a Nexus 7, a Pixel C tablet, across numerous versions of Android and Lineage OS. I've installed and uninstalled F-Driod dozens of times and installed and uninstalled hundreds of apps over several years across somewhere between a half dozen and a dozen devices. I've probably used at most 3-4 repositories.
So, what does all of that mean? Well, nothing other than that I can't confidently generalize from a one-off anecdote. Even if I'm really really personally convinced that my anecdote is the most important anecdote to end all anecdotes.
The problem is that internet comment sections are driven by psychological forces that don't necessarily translate into data from which it's safe to draw broad generalizations.
I usually have to restart my phone, uninstall the app, and reinstall again from scratch.
(Edit to add:) maybe the problem is that you're not keeping it updated? As per many replies I don't recognise the buggy mess you describe.
App install + bg updates have been an non-issue to me[1].