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Comment by m4rtink | Hacker News Reader

Yeah - while it seems easy/logical to just swap a normal delivery vehicle for an electric version of it, you don't really have to do that & electric vehicles do come in many more shapes and sizes due to the might higher flexibility and scalability of the electric power system.

For example here in Brno, Czech Republic, the entry to the city center is nowadays quite restrictive for regular cars/vans - a lot of it is a pedestrian zone & its not really built for cars anyway, the street layout dating back to the middle ages in places or to the 19th century.

As a result, a lot of the deliveries happen via alternative means - for example when you order a pizza from the local Dominos, they will come with an electric scoter or on a bike. A lot of the food delivery happens via guys on small e-scooters (or even electric monowheels!) or just on foot/going by public transport. In other cases you can see a DHL cargo e-bike, etc. :)

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> electric vehicles do come in many more shapes and sizes due to the might higher flexibility and scalability of the electric power system.

True. For example, this Norwegian article from 2021 has two pictures in it.

https://fagbladet.no/nyheter/posten-stanser-kjop-av-fossile-...

The first picture at the top are mostly big electric cars. But scroll down a bit.

As shown in the second picture, the other electric cars that the Norwegian postal service use are much smaller. Almost like a quad bike with small wheels and a roof.

Around me (Boston USA area) there are ebike grocery deliveries (Getir) wizzing down every street. It's a great idea, although clearly the incentives are set up so that the delivery guys need to complete as many orders as possible, the predictable result of which is that these kids are driving dangerously the wrong was down one-way streets and cutting lights.

The ebikes aren't dangerous, the cars that hit them are. I think that's an important distinction.

It's not the ebikes that he's saying are dangerous, it's the couriers. I got hit by a Getir rider in Brookline (probably near the parent) who zipped the wrong way out of a one-way street into the crosswalk I was using. Any vehicle driven by someone who isn't following the general rules/flow/expectations of everyone around them is dangerous.

And large vehicles are dangerous too. But that's orthogonal.

Right, its the cars that are dangerous when people on bikes (ebikes or not) ride on sidewalks.

I think part of the problem is that the danger from cars kind of force the bikes onto the sidewalk. If a biker has a choice between possibly getting hit by a car or possibly hitting a pedestrian, the choice is kind of obvious.

The solution is better infrastructure for bikes. Separate bike lanes from cars and pedestrians, slow the cars down, and improve visibility at conflict points.

> If a biker has a choice between possibly getting hit by a car or possibly hitting a pedestrian, the choice is kind of obvious.

I don't think that's true, though. The alternative is not "endanger pedestrians", the alternative is "walk". A biker has a choice to not bike. And that's what I do; I walk when I'm in Boston, because I don't think urban biking is safe enough for me to make that choice.

Like, yes, better bike infrastructure is a good idea and separated bike lanes is something that I absolutely support, but biking is a choice, and right now a lot of people on e-bikes (not so much regular bikes, to be honest) make me feel unsafe to walk in places that they tend to congregate.

If biking is a choice then so is driving a car, and cars are far more dangerous to pedestrians.

Cars absolutely are more dangerous when pedestrians and cars intersect. They're also not on the sidewalk, where pedestrians usually are, while bicycles (and, in my experience, especially e-bikes) tend to be. I've never gotten hit by a car. I have gotten hit by bicyclists. I'd rather not be hit by either.

If we're all on board with punishing bicyclists (and, again, especially e-bikes), who get to act like vehicles when it suits them, from being on sidewalks and potentially endangering pedestrians, I think there's a great dialogue to have about that.

E-bikes are absolutely dangerous to the pedestrians they hit.

I don't much like cars, but cars aren't driving on the sidewalks where I am.

I really love the concept of ebikes, for an urban/suburban area it's a viable alternative to a car. This issue as I see is that the regulations just aren't there and people are ebikes ride like complete idiots. Pre-ebike if you were riding at 25mph chances were you were a pretty good cyclist and had good control over your bike, now anybody that can find an ebike is zipping along at 25mph. This wouldn't be a problem if they followed the rules of the road and rode like they were driving a motorcycle (which is what an ebike really is) or a car, but that isn't the case, they ride like an 8 year old on their first bike, on the sidewalks, going the wrong way in traffic, not stopping for stop signs and traffic signal basically a free for all at 25mph not 8mph. Going back, you used to only see this from riders or messengers, so it was really limited, and even then riders/messengers got doored and put through windshields as a matter of course. I think it's just a matter of time before we see these ebike guys getting killed in significant numbers, enough that there's going to laws put in place.

As an avid cyclist it really bothers me when any cyclist, e-bike or not, violates the rules of the road. It's so important we follow them. Much of the hatred received is because of bikers doing things they are not supposed to giving us a bad reputation.

YES! I often get (unreasonably) upset at bicyclists because, in my experience, one in maybe ten follow the rules of the road. Where I am, it is very common that bicyclists will behave like a car when it is convenient for them, and like a pedestrian when it is convenient for them. They weave in and out of traffic, if they obey traffic laws at all. They run red lights, ride at night without reflectors, etc. I have nothing personal against bicyclists, but a lot of them drive very unsafe.

I imagine dedicated bike lanes would help with this, but at least where I am, there are dozens of cars for every bike, so I’m not sure how much sense it makes.

Where I live, it’s pretty common for non-cyclists, and even cyclists sometimes, to have no idea that the rules for pedestrians, cars, and cyclists are all different. Car drivers frequently believe that cyclists have to obey they same rules as cars, such as stopping at a stop sign, and get upset when cyclists don’t do this, without realizing that it’s the law; cars are required to stop and bicycles are not. (This is of course not true everywhere, but is where I live.)

I don’t know that there’s all that much ‘hatred’, my road rides are by and large peaceful, but the cars that do seem upset by cyclists tend to be unwilling to respect bikes that are following the rules of the road; they don’t like bikes using a full lane and they will often break the rules of the road to pass a cyclist unreasonably quickly and unreasonably close.

One thing I’ve noticed about e-bikes is that they are increasing the number of cyclists considerably. I feel like this is very very good for cyclists, it’s making bikes much more present on the road, increasing the city’s interest in maintaining bike paths, normalizing bikes in traffic for powered vehicle drivers, etc.

The road system and rules were built with cars in mind. They do not make sense for a cyclist, and following them is not the safest way to ride. I will follow rules that keep me safe, and allow my free movement. I won’t follow rules that make me less safe

For some reason I find it really funny that there are Dominos in the Czech Republic …

There are Dominos everywhere, it's not a laughing matter.

I felt the same way the first time I went to London and everyone in the pub was drinking Coors light except me I was drinking a fine English Bitter. I wouldn't wish Coors upon anyone.

As an American I refuse to believe there is anything in Brno but a gigantic Česká zbrojovka factory.

The current Česká zbrojovka is located in Uhersky Brod, the Brno location is long gone.

Aye. But there are millions of rifles with such insignia on them [0] and they were exported all over the world. If you asked some guy in the corners of afghanistan what Brno was, in the off chance they knew the word, they would probably think it was a brand of rifle.

I'd be curious if there is anything more iconic in recent history from brno that covers the ends of the earth than brno firearms.

[0] https://images.guns.com/prod/2021/06/21/60d0c845dabd0402af4f...

It's the birth place of Adam Ondra, arguably the best climber of all time and also his preferred climbing region. He does cover the ends of the earth by smashing the hardest climbs in the world everywhere :D

Had no idea about Brno firearms but have seen Starobrno beers in quite a lot of countries I've been to, in and out of Europe.

Villa Tugendhat by Ludwig Mies van der Rohe is pretty iconic, probably in different circles though.

Yeah - it used to be a pretty gigantic complex & it is now being re-developed: https://www.novazbrojovka.cz/

It will essentially become a whole new quarter, with housing, office/retail space and new schools. That's how big it was.

BTW, main focus now in Brno is high tech (a lot of electron microscopy), IT (Red Hat, Kiwi, YSOFT, Seznam, Netsuite, Avast, etc.) and lately also space (OHB, SAB Aerospace, etc.).

Hard on anecdotal observation Domino's is far more popular in Europe than the US

Imagine if it was run by an Australian.

Not sure if they are anywhere else in Czech Republic, but in Brno they even reside in the magnificent functionalist Palace Moravia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palace_Moravia

As far as I can tell their service is good & pizzas tasty. :)

First time I traveled from US to Europe was Spain in 1988, and I was interested to see Burger King and McDonalds there. A decade later, visiting the UK, I was 'surprised' a bit to see so many 'US' brands there. Mid 2000s - visited Shanghai - so many Western/US brands, didn't feel much different than being in NYC. 2010s - visited Russia and Romania - again, many US brands there (or other European/UK brands I knew). I got Sbarro pizza in Moscow - cost about $45 for one large pizza, but still tasted the same.

Lately, I've started noticing 'UK' brand products coming to the US (Persil detergent, for example). Maybe many of these are Unilever brands being exported to more countries?

When people talking about "multinational corporations", this is what they mean. As a US person who's never traveled abroad, it might be jarring (or 'funny') at first to see familiar brands in a 'foreign' country. But we're ... a pretty global society now.

I remember being in Italy(?) about 30 years ago and for whatever reason my friend went into a Blimpie's, of all places! Once they realized he was American, they gave him free food in exchange for a critique of how their sandwiches tasted compared to the ones over here.

Nice!

Seems like this might be a case for solar panels on-board. Long delivery route, moderate speeds, open road.

From quick search electric car uses 0.15-0.2kWh per kilometer. That's amount of energy you get after delivering 200 Watts for an hour. Let's say you have 2m2 of roof (pretty generous), of very efficient panels in your driving in absolute optimal conditions when they are giving you full power (that's around 200W/m2). No loses on the inverter and such.

So you need to be going at the speed of 2km/h. Well, that's actually not that bad for a postal service. It's assuming absolute optimal conditions, but energy usage is for a typical electric car.

I doubt it would be financially net positive or carbon negative, but the idea is not as crazy as I thought assuming final delivery in medium density sunny urban areas.

I suppose it makes sense to at least power the AC with them, as its drain correlates with the amount of sunlight.

AC is pretty power hungry; solar panels on the roof of an average van (best case) aren't going to make much of a dent. I find estimates of 10-20 miles per day of range in the best cases.

At current prices, my sense is that solar panels on vehicles are marketing, not materially contributing to the energy budget. Nothing wrong with that but I wouldn't like to spend my feature money on the option.

> AC is pretty power hungry; solar panels on the roof of an average van (best case) aren't going to make much of a dent.

If you space them off the roof by about an inch, like the old Landrover "Safari" roof, it'll make a hell of a difference.

I don't think the urban areas would work/are needed. Right now all mail is delivered by foot and likely faster than you could deliver with any vehicle, lots are 25-30feet wide so the density makes walking the best method. Where I do see it happening is out in the suburban subdivisions where people don't even have personal mailboxes, there's usually a cluster of boxes in the middle of the block for all the residents. So deliveries would be every 400m or so, electric would be perfect.

What would the solar panels do, power the clock?

one little panel to power a clock, a light, a fan and a radio would be perfect.

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