And all that with basically Playstation 2 era graphics and a trash game library with no real AAA titles.
These headsets, like consoles, are most certainly subsidized with some expectations of game sales. Meta say they’re not seeing long lasting engagement.
That would make each headset some form of loss.
Regarding graphics…I think comparing VR graphics to regular console graphics is a mistake. The immersiveness goes a long way to making things feel more realistic than they are. It doesn’t mean they actually look better, but the brain is better at filling in the gaps.
This was more true before than now. The Q2 launched at US $299. At that price they were losing potentially hundreds per unit. They were quoting multi-billion dollar quarter losses. Now at $399 and enough manufacturing time to lower costs, I bet they are close to break even. The hardware is becoming dated so the cost get get components must be not too shabby. Ultimately the Quest 2 is a Samsung Galaxy S20 under it all, seriously. The Xr2 is based on the 865 and the display is a high res ~6 inch LCD cut in half via optics.
I still doubt they’re breaking even on parts because there’s quite a few custom components in there but even if so, that’s still not funding their development of content and future devices.
That means their Reality Labs section is basically borrowing from every other profitable part of Meta instead to keep going.
That's gotta be a gut punch to both Meta and the consumer. The consumer spent the money for it, but then gets bored quickly. Meta spent all of this time/money to make the next great boring thing. Couldn't happen to a nicer group of folks though /s
And there are some great titles. I was playing Compound late last year and now I’m playing Barbaria. Compound especially really blew me away, like a VR doom. But then I beat it on the hardcore difficulty and that was that. After a couple weeks of playing Barbaria I’m ranked in the top 100 of players and about to drop it.
It's super immersive and a ton of fun, but its a very specific experience. It's like if the Xbox only had shooter games. Yeah Halo was amazing when it launched, but I wouldn't want a console that just had one type of experience, and so far it seems VR is a singular style of experience. At least in my 3 weeks of playing.
Physics based combat: Blade and Sorcery, Gorn, Barbaria, Bonelab
Diorama: Ghost Giant, Moss, A fisherman’s tale, Demeo
Arena duels: try Blaston, which is free
Sports simulators: Eleven Table Tennis, Thrill of the Fight, Walkabout Mini Golf
Puzzle/walking simulator: Red Matter, the last clockwinder
Art: Gravity Sketch(free), Vermillion , Kingspray, Virtuoso
Maps: Wooorld
Weird: Tea for God (free) a really great example of how devs are inventing something new given the odd constraints of VR
Newer cohorts of users are less engaged that the early adopter cohorts, which is surprising given that there is now more high quality content than in May of 2019.
I suspect the answer is friction. I bet that the early adopters were enthusiastic enough to actually put the damn thing on. People who bought in later maybe tried it and thought it was cool, but don’t have enough motivation to use it past the “wow” period.
I’ll give a friction example. I am playing a VR game now called Barbaria. It’s a fantastic clash of clans meets physics based combat game that really plays to VR strengths. It has a mechanic that encourages you to log in each day to collect more points that would work extremely well on mobile with a push notification. On VR, first there’s no notification, and then what could have been a 5 minute interaction on mobile turns into 5 minutes of headset setup and app loading for the 5 minutes of interaction. And you can only do it when you are home!
Basically you only bother with it if you know you are going to have at least 30 minutes of 100% dedicated distraction-free time while you put your phone away, a high bar these days!
VR/AR is a really hard thing to sell because you don’t know what you can experience until you experience it. And you don’t see how revolutionary this will be until you really start playing around with it and trying to integrate it with your life.
> Basically you only bother with it if you know you are going to have at least 30 minutes of 100% dedicated distraction-free time while you put your phone away, a high bar these days!
This is where Apple will dominate, and I think Meta knows it. With Apples headset I’m sure you will have your phone, iMessage, etc all built in. No need to check the phone anymore.
I wonder how long it will be before someone hooks up ChatGPT to something that creates avatars in virtual worlds. I bet someone clever person on HN is already working on that problem.
Unfortunately, it will probably only be used for a customer service chatbot in VR.
I don’t think I would ever game on my quest, however.
Why is that?
It’s also much more ergonomic using a keyboard + mouse / gamepad and monitors.
Don’t get me wrong, the Quest 2 is fun. But at this stage it feels more like the Wii in terms of it being entertaining but not something you’d want to play “serious” (for want a better word) games on and over long periods of time.
The biggest difference between the Quest 2 and Wii is that Q2 isn’t as well suited for social gatherings.
If the game studios / Oculus handlers were smart - when it was first released - they would have mined all of the best PS/3 era games to remake in VR instead of everyone trying innovative VR arcade games like creative Skunkworks teams instead of transforming past classics. Silent Hill series, more resident evil titles, Metal Gear Solid 1/2 would be amazing, Half life 2, etc.
There's a gold mine of FPS style controlled games that could be merged into a VR experience. I get the feeling AAA teams are waiting for the graphics to make new ones instead of doing remakes. Which is a big shame.
To go back to my Wii comparison, the games that were the most fun on that platform were ones that took advantage of the motion controls in a way that centred the game around it. Rather than games that used motion as an after thought (or didn't even use them at all).
I wonder if most people buying and consistently using the Quest are for non gaming (primarily fitness) reasons.
Otherwise I had a ton of fun replaying Resident Evil 4 and other games. The graphics are relatively primitive but the entire experience makes up for it 2 fold. When it's good it's really good. Just have to wade through a lot of arcady games to find them. Also multiplayer is 100% squeeky voiced kids and teenagers, so avoid.
The best thing I discovered was the unreleased Quest game dB where all the prerelase and indie titles are. It doubles the amount of content available. Lots of it free.
But if you want polished experiences anywhere close to something like Cyberpunk or Red Dead Redemption, you will not find anything even close. It’s not just a matter of graphics, the scope and scale of the content is vastly smaller than even what was on the PS2 or GameCube libraries.
My other comment expands on why I think it should be mostly legacy AAA game remade for it not new ones. Unless AAA studios will actually commit to older graphics, which they haven't.
My favourites were either the sports/fitness games like boxing or space Frisbee (Echo Arena 1), or survival horror, or reaction time shooting games (Superhot). The multiplayer Rainbow 6 style online FPS were also pretty good like Pavlov Shack Beta 2 but very beta.
Otherwise it should be modernized AAA games from the past like Resident Evil 4 showed can be top tier.
1 https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/2215004568539258/
2 https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/3649611198468269?ut...
That means you're no longer going to be able to take innovative risks with gameplay because you need to cater to the lowest common denominator, i.e., a single large 4K display and a controller. So we're left with VR support being a bolt-on second thought.
The latest Gran Turismo title did it correct. They designed the game from the beginning knowing that Sony was going to release a new headset. When that headset was released last week, their game was nearly 100% playable with it, and it completely changed how people experience the game.
I genuinely appreciate the Q2 as hardware, especially compared to the PSVR. But as you said the library is pretty dismal — Beat Saber and Rec Room are still the most fleshed out games.
Truth is even though motion sickness isn’t a factor for me, VR gaming feels like too much of a chore for what should be leisure time. If I want a workout, I can get an hour in on the treadmill playing Slay the Spire on my phone.
This is a very oligopolized market, with huge barriers to entry, and exactly 3 remaining large players.
Being #4 is not "no big deal", but it's also around the minimum expected result from spending $10 billions on that market.
My money personally is on Famicom to own this space.