Comment by rconti | Hacker News Reader

Comment by rconti | Hacker News Reader

In college, a roommate of mine was double-parked, or parked in a fire zone, or something, in our 8-house cul-de-sac. He ran upstairs to get something from his room, and a tow truck appeared (this all happened in well under 5 minutes).

When he came out, he argued with the tow truck guys a bunch, but they kept hooking up his car and arguing back and couldn't be reasoned with, etc etc. My friend sat on the hood to keep them from towing it. The tow truck operators threatened to call the cops, so my friend called the cops instead.

Before the police showed up, an SUV showed up with some tow truck heavies with, no doubt, plenty of illegal weapons on them, just to spectate and make sure things went the way they wanted.

Once the police showed up, the story changed a bit, and all of a sudden he could get his car unhooked for a "drop fee" that was 2x the minimum tow cost, I believe (memory hazy here). It was the law in Santa Clara County, but of course, the tow truck operators weren't going to volunteer this information.

Lesson learned. If someone's about hooking up your car, get in your car and drive away, unless it's in the air already. Don't even talk to the thugs.

In many places where illegal parking is common, tow truck drivers stage close by or hire spotters so they can hook up cars quickly. They can make a lot of money hauling away cars from drivers who only plan to stop for 2 minutes.

https://nyti.ms/3xW9OQX

This seems like stuff that should never be privatized or under non-police control.

Police hires company to tow stuff away sure, but not "some random bumblefuck have right to do the police's job of "law enforcement"

It's legalized car theft IMO.

With police already understaffed as they are, how would they enforce a bunch of students parking illegally next to campus and blocking traffic?

Assuming police are charging to get your car back then it would probably be quite the profit center for them to enforce in that situation. I would be more concerned about them over enforcing parking infractions as a matter of dept policy, than I would be of parking infractions being ignored.

> With police already understaffed

So lets delegate law-enforcement to a random person who will abuse it for personal profit?

This has corruption written all over

In what way are the police understaffed? If anything, they have too many employees.

Do you understand what you are writing?

"We don't have staff so let's pay some other company to lend us staff to do it, for more money that would cost to hire the staff (because their boss needs to earn the living too)"

You've heard of civil asset forfeiture, right?

> Owners need not ever be arrested or convicted of a crime for their cash, cars, or even real estate to be taken away permanently by the government. The government does not have to charge the property owner with any specific crime in order to seize the property, and must prove only by a preponderance of the evidence that the property is legally forfeitable. After property has been seized, the burden of proof shifts to the owner, who must prove that the property was not involved in nor obtained as a result of illegal activity [1]

The cops are far worse than some corrupt tow truck drivers. You have a fighting chance against a private company, but you'll rarely win fighting city hall.

[1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/civil_forfeiture

I live in a neighborhood with impacted parking that’s poorly served by the local government. People keep parking in front of my driveway and blocking me in. If I call the cops they ignore me. If I call the tow company they come and tow away the offending car. Is this bad?

Suppose someone decided my front yard is a good place to store their belongings and dropped a shed there. Should I be able to hire movers to dispose of the shed? Or the police should be my only recourse?

I share the feeling that towing companies can be abusive and that’s not right. I think a better response is to regulate the towing companies and provide remedies. For example, make abusive towing practices illegal with heavy penalties (eg. if they tow illegally, they owe you $1000 per day you lose access to your vehicle). If it’s unfair to tow a vehicle after two minutes, make that illegal.

I’ve had my fair share of getting towed and it sucks but I lean towards your opinion with this one.

> If I call the cops they ignore me. If I call the tow company they come and tow away the offending car. Is this bad?

Yes. Here in Poland they'd get ticketed at the very least. It's easy money for them, pads their stats, and actually helps people. If it is somewhere where it blocks traffic (whether to house, pedestrians or otherwise) it would most likely also be towed. The company is contracted by city but they just do the towing, not law enforcement.

> This seems like stuff that should never be privatized or under non-police control.

I lived in a city that had it's own towing department. One evening, I parked in a spot that turned into a tow zone the following data at 7am. The next morning, I got to my care at 6:58am, and a tow truck was parked right in front of me with the driver enjoying a coffee. I quickly hopped into my car, put the key in the ignition, turned it, and....nothing. My battery was dead.

I got out, walked up to the tow truck driver and explained the situation. He backed up his truck, got out the cables, gave me a jump start, and I was on my way. I always wondered if a private service with possibly different incentives would have done the same.

They even park/hide the picked car closeby to come & pick another one. Parking the car out of their own place is illegal, but it goes like other things.

Maybe a better lesson than “confront / physically endanger the tow truck driver who is doing his job” is “don’t block traffic in an 8 house cul de sac because you wanted to get something from your room but didn’t want to actually bother finding parking.”

This all reads like entitled driver behavior to me. Or dumb college antics that are best left behind.

-former car owner

The amount of mental gymnastics I hear from people who illegally park or obstruct society for their own selfish reasons is beyond me. There are places to park, there are places to not park, they don't have an overlap.

I don't agree with this. I'm from the US and have now lived in Japan for 6+ years. We have zero on street parking around the city, yet we joke that the hazard lights button is the "park anywhere" button, and you see it all the time.

Because nobody strongly abuses this, it generally works fine and people go on with their lives around them. Even with the small neighborhood streets around Tokyo, you rarely see it being treated as an issue. At worst, if a truck is trying to pass, a quick honk will cause whoever is driving to rush out and move the car.

I do get disillusioned sometimes though, living in a society where people have a general level of respect for each other.

> Because nobody strongly abuses this

There’s your likely reason for why the rule is strictly enforced in the US.

Really, it makes no sense to me that people demand and expect law enforcement to work equally for everyone while also wanting to make an exception of themselves.

> I do get disillusioned sometimes though, living in a society where people have a general level of respect for each other.

This might have something to do with it.

> the hazard lights button is the "park anywhere" button

I first saw this behavior when I went to school in Rochester, NY and wondered what the hell everybody was doing. Never encountered it growing up outside of Boston.

Fascinating that you arrived at such a similar phrase for this. In my group we call them ‘park anywhere lights’ I spend 3+ months a year between Fukuoka and Tokyo, but outside my group of friends this concept has never really been discussed.

I also agree on the baseline level of respect and order, going back to Sydney is sometimes jarring where some things don’t ‘just work’ as they do here.

This is very common behaviour (and known as the "park wherever the f you want" button among my friends) in Italy as well. But italians are not exactly the best example of drivers to imitate and learn from

Same in Spain, and I guess most of Europe, when you are parking temporarily ( < 5 minutes normally ) somewhere you shouldn't you put the hazard lights on.

But I'm not talking about blocking the road entirely, of course that's not the case, just parking in places that is not allowed to park statically.

You had me until "former car owner"

Pointing out sanctimony or hypocrisy is not a valid argument against. It's is a kind of ad hominem.

A person can be both right and sanctimonious

Weird to me it’s being read as sanctimony. My intent was just to convey “I was a driver for 22 years I am allowed to say we are entitled behind the wheel.” Maybe people feel guilty about owning cars so it rubbed them wrong? Some people have to, I’m lucky enough to not. I don’t think I’m better, just emotionally liberated. It’s an amazing feeling to have the privilege of not having to drive or park, get psychotically enraged at being towed, etc

Ad hominem, when used, is commonly done as a pure convenience for the person wielding it.

I cannot say about this particular case.

For many of us, including myself, such a "luxury" is not practical:

1. I like the outdoors and they don't put bus lines 200 miles from the nearest gas station.

2. Work is often further than walking or biking distance.

3. I need to haul more than a few days worth of groceries. Or a larger item.

I think what people are getting upset at is you are conflating not driving with some higher form of intellect when in reality it's a privilege really only afforded to people who live in often high cost of living areas. This implies a socioeconomic status to yourself whether you like it or not and so people feel you are talking down to them. I interpreted it as you were talking down to me too. It's not about me being "done" with road rage, or whatever, it's about the fact that my town, my life, and the country in general won't let me be "done" with it. Nor will my hobbies. For many of us a car is not a privilege it's an absolutely basal level necessity. No amount of cheerleading for the anti-car crowd will change that. I suspect it won't change in my lifetime either.

>I think what people are getting upset at is you are conflating not driving with some higher form of intellect

But that’s them presuming, I neither meant nor actually said that and I explained my intent above. It’s a mistake on their part. That fine, that’s life, but says more about them than me.

>when in reality it's a privilege really only afforded to people who live in often high cost of living areas.

Totally, that’s why I called it a privilege myself in the comment you’re replying to. People seem to have layered a stereotype onto me because I said I was a former car owner. It’s like saying you don’t own a television-maybe it’s often said in arrogance but sometimes you actually have a good reason to mention it.

former car owner

Couldn't help but get that in there could you.

>This all reads like entitled driver behavior to me.

You sure? GP:

>Before the police showed up, an SUV showed up with some tow truck heavies with, no doubt, plenty of illegal weapons on them, just to spectate and make sure things went the way they wanted.

Sounds more like thugs engaging in predatory behavior to me.

If the tow truck operators did not have thugs, the commenter’s friend still would have committed a violation.

I think in this case, both parties were wrong. Sometimes that happens - nobody is right.

> don’t block traffic in an 8 house cul de sac

Isn't the whole point of a cul de sac that there isn't much traffic through it? Doesn't the cul de sac itself block traffic?

This reminds me of my own college experience where I had accidentally parked in a beach lot late one night without seeing the no parking sign, and 15-20 mins after checking out the surf we got a phone call from our friend who had been passed out in the back of the car.

She was hysterical after waking up and discovering the car was on the bed of a tow truck barreling down the highway.

I can't recall exactly how the tow truck driver was alerted of the girl in the back seat, but they brought it back and released it.

So yeah, humans in/on vehicle getting towed prevents them from towing.

Interesting to see so many different perspectives on this one. Seems like I'm in the minority, but my perspective is you are absolutely not towing my car while I am present. I'll get in and drive away while it's hooked to the truck. Or whatever I have to do. You are not towing it. Period.

I'm not sure what country you live in, IANAL, in the US you're going to be liable for all damages and risk a license suspension for doing that. It's dangerous to the tow driver and there's no world where you can reasonably argue endangering them

I'll get in and drive away while it's hooked to the truck

Not likely, at least not without seriously damaging your car and/or the tow truck and you’ll have to pay for both. That tow truck hook is designed to pull your car down the road at highway speeds, you’re not going to just drive your car off it.

https://youtu.be/Wq3e0XwyDMM

> That tow truck hook is designed to pull your car down the road at highway speeds

It depends. Wheel lifts are designed to have ratchet straps run through anchors on the side and over the tires to keep the vehicle strapped down. Your vehicle has it's own suspension and it can "pop" off the lift easily.

In "high risk" towing or repossession, you might see an agent lift a vehicle then drive off with it; almost certainly, they're going about a mile or so away to where they can safely stop and then strap the vehicle down properly.

Even then:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKSj-iN6KE

Your vehicle has it's own suspension and it can "pop" off the lift easily.

I think that’s what the guy in the 4wd truck in the video I linked to thought, he did‘t get it off with causing some serious body damage to his truck, maybe some suspension damage and probably some damage to the tow truck, he lifted the tow truck off its front wheels several times.

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