Comment by roody15 | Hacker News Reader

Comment by roody15 | Hacker News Reader

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Identity formation is an complex and fascinating subject in human development. As an educator and father of three can also chime in with my own personal experience.

I believe that many (if not most) people do not have a fully formed identity around gender or around sexuality by the age of 15-16.

So asking questions to this group on whether they identity as this or that may actually cause some psychological harm because they are still in the process of forming an identity on multiple fronts.

Imagine being a 15 year young women just out of middle school. You are extremely uncomfortable with you’re body, appearance and just now discovering things of a sexual nature. This period is difficult for many regardless of sexual orientation or gender.

Now imagine going into your freshman english class and the first question asked by your teacher is introduce yourself and your preferred pronoun. This may seem progressive and tolerant but consider it may also be harmful to minors at this stage of development.

Now as an adult if you feel you may have gender dysmorphia and start to identify as a deferent gender than birth .. by all means. In this case I am fully supportive and want people to feel comfortable and find happiness, I also believe we live in a mostly free society so as an adult this is absolutely within your rights.

If you read this far I thank you and am fine is you disagree. Just my thought is my perspective (and many others) as a father of three girls and educator for 20 years should allow for some nuisance in discussion.

My issue is not wether you and I agree on this topic as I assume you have your own valid perspective and experience .. my issue is that this topic is put off limits in many cases and it’s an all or nothing acceptance on supporting trans rights and what that entails.

Trans teenagers that want to transition are going to need puberty blockers, so obviously you can’t postpone any conversation around trans identity issues until adulthood.

Your perspective strikes me as a modern version of the old “concern” that talking to teenagers about homosexuality turns straight kids gay. By now we hopefully all understand how that’s just bigotry, and your argument is basically the same. You make some vague allusions to confused teenage girls being vulnerable to gay^H^H^H trans propaganda based on purely hypothetical worries. Gut feeling all the way down.

Note also that your concern is that a straight teenage girl gets mindwarped by the evil trans lobby and not the symmetrical scenario of a hypothetical teenager daughter that is trans but feels unable to come out of the closet because she doesn’t trust the adults in her life to respond reasonably.

Maybe ask yourself if you would be disappointed if one of your kids turns out trans and then ask yourself why.

Middle-aged men choose to transition to become transwomen, and they all went through puberty. Some even fathered kids.

So there's no reason for trans-identifying teenagers to have their own puberties blocked, before they can even make properly informed decisions about choosing lifelong sterility and lack of sexual function.

Like the older trans, they can wait a few years to adulthood or even later, and then decide what they want to do. This is the safer and more sensible option, and the one most compatible with "do no harm".

You are wrong. Puberty blockers do not cause infertility or lack of sexual function. Your statements are incorrect and incongruent with established medical knowledge and advice. Also, trans is an adjective, not a plural noun.

Over 96% of children who present with gender dysphoria and are given puberty blockers then go on to take cross-sex hormones. This treatment pathway does indeed cause infertility and lack of sexual function.

There's no good reason why these children can't experience their normal, untarnished puberty, and defer the decision to medically trans themselves to later on, in adulthood, when they are older and wiser.

Puberty blockers and hormones are different things, that's why they have different names. Puberty blockers do not cause infertility or a lack of sexual function. So 96% of children go on to become adults that choose to take hormones because they made the right decision going on puberty blockers. There is a good reason why children should have access to puberty blockers, and to not suffer through a puberty that isn't in line with their gender; it's so they don't kill themselves.

That is one interpretation.

Another is to consider that while over 96% of children given puberty blockers proceed to cross-sex hormones, those treated with watchful waiting desist in around 85% of cases.

This suggests that puberty blockers are much more likely to cement gender dysphoria, rather than treat it.

Furthermore, there is no evidence to show that not being prescribed puberty blockers causes gender dysphoric children to kill themselves.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/

"There is a significant inverse association between treatment with pubertal suppression during adolescence and lifetime suicidal ideation among transgender adults who ever wanted this treatment. These results align with past literature, suggesting that pubertal suppression for transgender adolescents who want this treatment is associated with favorable mental health outcomes."

> Middle-aged men choose to transition to become transwomen, and they all went through puberty. Some even fathered kids.

> So there's no reason for trans-identifying teenagers to have their own puberties blocked [...]

If this is really your whole thought process, I'd implore you to read up on why transitioning is beneficial for transgender youth. Do you know what would happen if we were to implement your idea? We'd have a lot more suicides in transgender youth, because going through the "wrong" puberty is hard, and leaves a lot of mental anguish. Instead of relying on simple thought patterns, could we please do actual research into these complicated topics and try to find what works best for those afflicted, not what feels right to us in the moment? Thank you.

"Trans teenagers that want to transition are going to need puberty blockers"

From a medical perspective and from a psychological perspective I am not sure puberty blockers are a good option for teens.

Again I would argue most teens do not have a full identity even formulated and may experiment with different gender, identity and or sexual roles.

Is it in a patients best interest to "block" puberty?

It is in their best interest because puberty blockers are harmless and this gives the child more time to figure out what they want. If they want to go ahead with transitioning they can take the appropriate hormones when they're ready. If they change their mind and don't want to transition anymore no harm is done. Maybe you were under the impression that puberty blockers have permanent effects?

Puberty blockers just give children extra time to figure out what they want, and it sounds like you agree that's a good thing.

> my issue is that this topic is put off limits in many cases and it’s an all or nothing acceptance on supporting trans rights and what that entails.

I understand your concern, and I think your perspective is actually non-discriminatory.

But I'm still curious how you think the line should be drawn. If I said I think race mixing is a bad idea (to be very clear, I absolutely don't hold this opinion), do you think it would be fair for people to avoid discussing with me?

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