Airlines have a 4-wheeled problem that’s only going to get worse | Hacker News Reader

Airlines have a 4-wheeled problem that’s only going to get worse

thehill.com

29 pointstwiddling43 comments

On the other hand, airports now are so large, and the terminals built with misanthropically meandering paths, that the transfer times between gates can exceed 20 minutes at a brisk pace.

On a recent international arrival at JFK (I think) I had to walk what felt like at least a mile through long corridors, past moving walkways that were all disabled. Even though they don't need wheelchairs, there's no way my grandparents would be able to walk that comfortably, pulling their suitcases along, especially with no benches to stop and rest.

CDG is the worst. Went through customs twice. Had 1h45m layover and barely made my connection.

JFK isnt so bad, anecdotally

Disability is a binary in the minds of many - either you are and thus entitled to assistance, or you aren’t at all.

The difference between being able to walk 500m in 30 minutes with a bench or two in the middle and being able to walk 1km in 15 minutes without sitting is one that seems to escape lots of people. The latter capability is necessary for making a lot of connections at big airport, especially if immigration/customs and/or a delay is involved, and the latter is all many of my 70+ year old relatives are capable of.

I encourage them to register as needing assistance to get to and from their gates (there usually is an option without wheelchairs), telling them that airlines assume “able-bodied” is a healthy frequent flyer around my age or younger.

It's worth being skeptical of claims that people are faking disability. For example, there is a common belief that wheelchairs are for people who can't walk, but a lot of wheelchair users can walk, just not necessarily without pain or for long periods. I don't trust airline staff's subjective impressions to be well-informed.

On that note, stories constantly circulate of airlines breaking or losing wheelchairs through improper handling. It seems like wheelchair users dread having to fly because there's a huge risk their mobility device will be destroyed after their flight.

But if 25 need wheelchairs to get on but only 5 to get off...

People with uncertain mobility might not know how long they need to start out in advance and whether they can stand in security lines, etc. Relatives might also pressure them to take a wheelchair out of concern that they miss the flight.

But if you have no connecting flight there's a lot less risk involved in getting off a flight by your own power, particularly when airlines forget wheel chair users.

Consider that before they board they are rushing around the airport and after they've just been sitting still and resting for over an hour.

Pretty nasty coordination problem. I'm somewhat surprised so many people are willing to defect though, in the face of what I assumed were pretty strong cultural norms against getting in a wheelchair and pretending to be crippled. I know a bunch of people joke about the west being over or whatever, but this is some of the strongest evidence I've seen. 25 people claiming to need a wheelchair on what I assume is a flight of less that 300?!?

Same thing happened with service dogs. All you have to do is say those magic words and you get access to pretty much everywhere.

People are all too eager to judge or enforce against handicapped space violaters so why would the wheelchair situation be any different.

I guess unlike parking theres technically no law being violated and people are afraid to speak out on a plane since the consequences are higher for any conflict on board an airplane.

“…a flight with 25 passengers who require [wheelchairs] to board turns into an arriving flight in which only five need the service. In the airline industry, we call these ‘Jesus flights’ because so many passengers seem to be ‘healed’ during their flight.”

Extraordinary. It reminds me of people constantly cutting in traffic to get to their destination a total of 30 seconds earlier (we are all at the mercy of traffic light cycles, buddy). Except even less sensible, since the plane only departs when everyone has boarded anyway.

They're not trying to get on the plane faster to get to their destination faster. They're doing it to get an overhead bin space, or on Southwest to get a more desirable seat.

Occultae Veritatis episode 197 talks about invisible illness and how people who genuinely need to use a wheelchair don't necessarily always need to use one, and how that can confuse people who aren't aware.

https://www.ovpod.ca/

> The easiest way to immediately fix the problem is to have those requiring more time to board go last. Yes, after everyone else has boarded. This would remove the temptation for those who are faking an injury and would mean far fewer wheelchair requests.

> The problem with this is the Department of Transportation mandates that airlines board those requiring additional time first. Absent a change, this boarding backlog is only going to get worse — much worse.

The DOT fixing that would be the ideal solution to this. Failing that, wouldn't a few simple rule changes by the airlines completely eliminate the problem of people who don't need wheelchairs demanding them anyway just to get priority boarding?

1. Give everyone tags for their carryons that say what boarding group they'd be in if they weren't extra-time preboarders. If the overhead bins fill up, take out any carryons that don't have a tag from a group that's already started to board and gate-check them.

2. Don't let anyone who requested a wheelchair deplane without waiting for it.

3. On airlines without assigned seating (Southwest), instead of only requiring that extra-time preboarders not sit in the exit row, also require that they sit as far back in the plane as possible (just at first, being allowed to move forward once the boarding group they'd be in if they weren't extra-time preboarders starts to board).

4. No carry-ons. I wonder if there's anything useful that could be done with the space.

Or limit their size and number.

#2 seems impossible to enforce without getting physical, and the others might open them up to violations of laws like ADA or discrimination or at least bad PR.

This will make for flights with only able bodied people eventually. Immediately though it would make the disabled into victims of riducule. Terrible idea. 0/10 on the empathy scale.

How so? 2 will have no effect on people who are actually disabled, and 1 and 3 just mean their seating position and carryon status are the same as they'd be if they weren't disabled.

I always think it’s silly to board early. I wait till near the end. Much Roomier outside the plane.

I agree if I don’t have any carry on baggage. But if I’m trying to stow a bag overhead I need to board as early as possible to make spaces more likely.

Finding an overhead bin used to be a lot less cutthroat back when the first checked bag was free...

My fiancé is a big fan of holding out for the option to check a bag at the gate, provided that she's retrieving her luggage immediately after landing (e.g. no further layovers, which would exponentially increase the likelihood of it becoming lost).

I was skeptical at first, but it's been nice boarding last and not having to find a place for the bag. You do have to wait for the luggage return on the other side, though.

If you can surrender the luggage (ie its not required during flight, is not exceptionally valuable, or fragile) then why the hell are you carrying it around anyway? Check it in.

I schlep things in the airport only because I travel with several laptops and camera lenses that would get broken, stolen, or both if checked in.

There's no reason to be carrying stuff on if you are able to gate check at the end of it, unless you are sweating the (let's be honest, trivial) bag fee.

Gate checking is free. Many airlines charge for a checked bag which incentivizes bringing it to the gate.

> unless you are sweating the (let's be honest, trivial) bag fee.

$50 is not trivial to everyone.

Also I don't think that's what "trivial" means

Checking bags adds significant time on both ends (bag drop lines are long, baggage claim is slow) as well as risk. If you don’t need more than what fits in a carry-on, why bother?

Lost backs really suck. Not checking a bag really reduces this risk.

If I’m going somewhere where I don’t care if my bag arrives, like back from vacation, then I’ll check. But if I need the contents of my bag then I never check it in and keep it with me.

Two days ago I was forced to check my carry at the gate. I was flying on a Boeing 747, which is huge. Waiting for my bag added almost one hour to my trip. Waiting an hour after you’ve already been traveling for over 20 hours kind of sucks. A guy also waiting for his bag says he regrets paying for Global Entry, which lets you bypass lines at passport control, because he has to spend a long time waiting for his luggage like everyone else.

You're never forced. You can refuse to board without your bag. I have to do this regularly, I have yet to be called on the (semi) bluff.

If we're being honest, there is rarely a flight I take that is worth more than the value of the lenses in my hand luggage, so it's not really that much of a bluff.

It annoys the hell out of me that every airline has “board first” as their status perk instead of “board last but the overheads bins are reserved for you”.

Lots of comments here about people faking.

There has been a large uptick in disabilities since early 2021 in the civilian workforce (ages 16+): https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNU01074597

The sudden uptick in the trend is real.

I and many other 30 somethings I know decided to take our health more seriously after the pandemic, since obviously no one else is going to go to bat for us and we are now influential in the workforce enough to tell off the previous gen folks who would like us to just grit our teeth and make do.

Sums up the usefullness of social media. In order to get the social ego treatment by bording first by faking disability. Surely social media algorithms promoted this crap behavior in the first place. I suggest Social media platforms pay for the extra cost.

Update the rules and ban the fakers from using the airline again?

How do you intend to identify "fakers" without catching innocent people with disabilities in your net?

Maybe reuse the criteria for getting a handicapped parking permit. But literally anything would be better than anyone being able to claim it with zero evidence.

>literally anything would be better than anyone being able to claim it with zero evidence.

It is not the duty of a person with a disability to justify themselves to every skeptic they encounter. That is both unrealistic and discriminatory, especially as we would endlessly encounter people who would not be convinced no matter what we say. Disability accomodation laws have made this crystal clear for decades.

Even people with handicap permits regularly get questioned as to if they are "genuinely" disabled, and the only thing that tamps it down at all is the fact that an establishments that do so are financially discouraged from it.

Someone faking a disability is a nuisance, someone discriminating over a disability is a human rights violation.

Who decides?

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