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Comment by lolinder | Hacker News Reader

Custom rom support would be helpful for a very niche audience, but it's not something that's going to make a dent in e-waste at all. I'm a pretty tech savvy user who runs Linux on my desktop and I'm too intimidated to try a custom ROM on my phone. The average Nokia customer isn't going to even know it's an option, much less be willing to take the plunge.

If Nokia is serious about fighting e-waste they need to provide a longer lifecycle of updates.

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People willing to repair their own device is a niche audience as well. If you’re willing to go through the effort of fixing your device, there’s a decent chance you’re willing to flash a custom rom.

Screens yes, battery no.

Or at least changing batteries used to be mainstream. Anyone born before the year 2000 should not be at all intimidated by changing a battery. I can't speak for Gen Z, it's possible they've lost that skill.

It's just very expensive. If it becomes affordable they will do it.

I remember having spare batteries for my Motorola, and an external battery charger, because charging via the built in would take ages.

I remember my Old Samsung's and HTC thunderbolt all have replaceable batteries, as well as the Motorola Droid which was super cool..

Not going to these were the early ones. I think starting with the S8 or so they stopped letting you replace the battery. I'm on pixels now. And my Pixel 6 doesn't have a replaceable battery...

Replacing the battery used to be just popping off the back cover, sliding out the battery then sliding in a new one.

These days it’s a perilous task that requires multiple spudgers and picks, a screen heater, finger acrobatics to make sure you don’t slash or rip any fragile cables, and then you have to wrestle the battery from its adhesive coffin.

Right, but Nokia supposedly fixed that with this phone.

If the average user can't handle flashing a custom ROM (which is probably true), they can take it to one of the million phone repair shops and give them $10.

It's not just a question of flashing it, it's a question of living with it. By all accounts I've read the custom ROM experience is far from seamless: it sounds worse than the Linux desktop currently is, and I wouldn't recommend running Linux to just anyone.

Custom ROMs work just as well as the ROMs phones are shipped with.

It's really not uncommon to see ROMs with known bugs like "camera doesn't work" "3.5mm port doesn't work". When I was looking for a phone in 2018 I was looking at the Pixel series and that was the bug list for most of the ROMs at the time - and pixel was basically the best-case scenario that everyone was pointing me at as far as support.

It was still in official support at that time but I got burned by my first android phone going EOL within 6 months of when I bought it and I wasn't going to leap again without knowing there were actually ROMs that worked without major feature loss.

It probably would have worked out, being a pixel and all, but I specifically ran into bumps on my previous phone (Moto G Falcon) with features being lost on custom ROMs. Eventually I found one that worked OK but that's just not acceptable to lose official support 6 months after purchase and deal with custom ROMs where random shit is broken.

That's right, and that's why you should choose your phone based on the ROM you want. Of course if you choose a phone that is not supported, it probably won't work well.

Try running the Samsung S23 ROM on a Nokia 7 plus and tell me how it goes: that's the same problem.

I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years, and it is absolutely great. I just use it like a normal Android, no need to fiddle with it _at all_. Some apps don't work because I'm de-Googled (no Play Services), but you don't need that (or you can accept that some apps don't work).

This wasn’t my experience with de-googled (edit) grapheneos.

One week, apps started throwing an uncaught null pointer exception on startup because their network permission was revoked.

Even without that, random apps (especially for charging EVs and parking, and especially if it was raining) would just plain break for a few weeks, then start working again.

It would be nice if there was a commonly-used android compatibility suite for developers (of apps and of roms), but there isn’t, so everything is flaky once you are slightly off the beaten path.

That wasn't my experience with GrapheneOS: it's been rock-solid (and the battery savings from not having apps constantly polling for updates means I get 2.5 days per charge on both my Pixel 4a and Pixel 6a.

They work excellent for what they are, and are a testament to the ingenuity of the android community, but as an end user product they're just not there yet. I would never flash a custom ROM for someone who isn't capable of flashing something else on it to fix a bug or restore back to factory.

Phone makers make it hard, but it doesn't really have to be. You can flash GrapheneOS on a Pixel using a USB cable, Chrome and a few pokes at the developer settings menu on the phone. The only actual friction comes from the Pixel's default OS and that UX flow was a choice.

iunno, setting up a custom ROM is the first thing I do on any wifi router I buy. Haven't really touched the concept on my phone, but it's totally something I've done for security reasons.

I can totally see doing it on a router, but I'm scared to do it on a phone because I've heard too many horror stories about banking apps and similar refusing to run if they detect they're running on a rooted phone.

I only have a smartphone in order to use all of the apps that people assume you'll be able to install. If a significant percentage of those won't work on a custom ROM, I may as well not have the device at all.

(It's entirely possible that my fears are overblown, but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are.)

It's fairly easy to bypass most of these with Magisk modules, like universal safetynet fix.

That's great, and something that I may eventually consider doing, but that doesn't help the average user who just wants to keep using their perfectly decent phone. Rooting their device and installing a custom rom is complicated enough without having to go through the process of installing extra modules.

> but that I have them is suggestive of how far from mainstream custom roms are.

Totally. I think ROMs like /e/ OS and CalyxOS are actually getting close to giving the same experience as stock ROMs, though (if you choose a phone that is supported, that it).

Let's hope it keeps moving forward! Repairable phones + long term support with custom ROM sounds great IMO!

I have been using /e/ OS on a Fairphone for 2 years now. I love it. I would say that the experience is not very far from a stock Android.

Most of the issues I have (which is not a lot) are because I'm completely de-Googled, but you don't need that.

I really think that there are alternative ROMs today that are great, if your phone is supported. Hopefully repairable phones will be supported (at least Fairphone is great for community support, I find).

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