For Chat-Based AI, We Are All Once Again Tech Companies’ Guinea Pigs
wsj.com
wsj.com
But I think by now, Bing aka Sydney has made a very convincing case to Microsoft that this would be a very bad idea.
I can't help but wonder who's pushing this "AI safety" narrative, and why.
Yep, current AI harms seem fairly limited. And when gorillas first saw humans on the savanna, the human harms to their habitat were also quite limited.
We may only have a single chance to get smarter-than-human AI right.
Eventually smarter than human AIs will exist and we currently do not have real interperability into dumber than human AIs
Humans generally have the same alignment constraints, we need food, shelter, air, water, etc. We can all agree on that. But if you give 10 humans $1 and 1 human $1 billion dollars the human with a billion dollars can quickly ignore and forget about the needs of those with $1. The human alignment problem is not solved!
With the potential for all knowing information ingestors with a realtime input system that far outstrips human capabilities, the delta of the problem just becomes worse, particularly because the AI goals are much more likely to be aligned with the billionaires ideas.
The default is: running a nonprofit generates less revenue than running a for-profit.
I've talked to a lot of the AI "doomsayers" in person and I believe they are sincere in their worries. That's not to say I agree with all their ideas unreservedly -- there is a fair amount of disagreement among the doomsaying crowd. There is an entire spectrum of beliefs about the likelihood of doomsday, and lots of debate, see e.g. https://www.lesswrong.com/s/n945eovrA3oDueqtq However I don't think this is a Machiavellian ploy for influence/funding/etc.
How many companies are working on AI? Well a number of the biggest most well funded companies in the world. And those companies have 8 billion copies of self booting intelligence to learn from.
It is incredibly, i mean massively ignorant to say creation of intelligence is impossible when we're doing just that by having sex already. Nature did this by random walk. There was no magic here. No intelligent design. Applied chemistry and randomness created human intelligence. Now humans are taking their massive filtering capabilities of the mind and its reasoning ability it provides and working steadfast on making intelligence happen artificially and your response is about anti-gravity....
Ummm.....
"beyond the point of no return" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34831728
and
"Pandora's box is open, the genie's bottle is uncorked" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34809607
I sit somewhere between the despondent nihilism and the blithe optimism. We owe it to everyone, present and future, to get it right.
After watching Facebook evolve the last ~20 years, I think a bit of skepticism is warranted.
But I appreciate the reply. I'm heartened to learn that people (besides the NYT/WSJ) are genuinely concerned.
[1] I'd expect the algorithms are pretty similar to 'show me things like the ones my friends interacted with.' And if they really cared about addiction, they could just disable infinite scroll.
AI will have the same problem, except instead of sociopaths at the helm, it will be an actual computer.
If you don't want it, don't sign up for it, or opt in. Refrain from using it. Very simple.
In the dark ages before ChatGPT, the only access individuals had to large language models was through the editing process that newsrooms use to harness the power of dozens of human brains. These archaic processes had severe bandwidth limitations that prevented the level of individualized interaction that we all benefit from today.
I'm less sympathetic to this concern. Not totally dismissive. I think some of the restrictions are fair for a company running a business. If you want to sell to other companies, make sure your bots don't use racial slurs, for example. But I don't think there's an ethical issue.
I've used it enough to know it has no utility for me. I don't expect my world to be improved by others using it, and I think there's a strong chance it will be made materially worse. That doesn't mean I think it should be banned, that the people that invented it have done something immoral or that I'm smarter than anyone else.
As far as I can tell, this is the gist of the article, which I find boring. When Google started, its main product was still being actively researched - heck, it was the result of an algorithm from two grad students. You definitely had and still have made-up and biased results there too. Yet it was an incredibly useful technology.
Have any of these companies actually asserted any truth around these models?
I mean, the model itself asserts a bunch of truth, but I have a lot of books that confidently assert truths that are completely wrong (fiction), and it hasn't caused many problems.
This seems more like it depends very much on how the product is framed. If these companies are claiming that the models are completely accurate, they should definitely be hit for some kind of fraud, but I haven't actually seen that. The closest I've seen is companies claiming that they could be useful (and based on comments here, I think that's quite justified).
I didn't know either, I just suspected it might be true.
Trust The Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Effectively, we've implemented the ship's computer from Star Trek TNG. While there's enough enthusiasm that average people are playing with ChatGPT, it seems that the "glass half empty" attitude is far outweighing the perspective that we've achieved something that was once complete fantasy in our lifetimes. Nobody I know, including those with greater ML/AI knowledge than mine, is in as much awe as I am. Current generation LLMs are something we're already taking for granted as a cool toy, or we're concluding it's crap because it doesn't have a God-like grasp on facts, or we're waiting for it to become Skynet.
Given the overall response we're having to this technology, I can't help but conclude that society is overdue for being put in its place, and perhaps it even needs to be knocked down a peg. The real problem with AI may not be so much the technology itself but that we're not deserving or truly ready for it.
This is what concerns me, if this thing doesn't turn out to be great for society, it will still be pushed down peoples throats because a ROI needs to be made, a lot of money is at stake and so here we are.
Hopefully it goes ok.
Large buckets of money have been already thrown its way, and there must be a ROI registered, even if it's pushed fast and hard and through lots and lots of PR.
Look at the way we regulate harmful chemicals. After studies find that chemicals found in consumer products are harmful, manufacturers spend several years redesigning their products to avoid them. After manufacturers have voluntarily redesigned their products, the chemicals are banned. The manufacturers often replace the harmful chemicals with structurally similar chemicals that have not yet been shown to be harmful. When those similar chemicals are shown to be harmful, the cycle repeats. This is the history of phthalates, which are used to soften PVC plastic. The CPSC first considered banning one phthalate (DEHP) in children's toys the 1980s. Before that happened, all large manufacturers replaced it by another phthalate (DINP), which also turned out to be harmful. Both DEHP and DINP were finally banned by congressional action in 2008.
Technology is not a chemical, but anything that people will be spending significant time interacting with is likely to have some effect on their wellbeing, potentially small but potentially large, potentially positive but potentially negative. The type of harms these chatbots might cause are difficult to predict in advance. It could take a couple years to determine whether the current generation of chatbots are actually a net positive or negative for society. In that time, they may become too entrenched for us to do anything if they do turn out to be harmful. When Facebook first came out, I doubt many people foresaw the negative impact that it could have on teenagers. Today, many studies show that social media use has a negative impact on kids' wellbeing, but there is no going back to a pre-social media world.
Prospectively testing and regulating tech in the same way we regulate pharma seems insane. OTOH, we do want to make sure that world-changing tech actually changes the world for the better, and the only obvious way to do this is through some kind of regulation. Although regulation will undoubtedly slow growth, many of us would be happy to sacrifice some growth for improved wellbeing. At this point, everyone has seen the productivity-pay gap plot showing that most of the improvement in US productivity since 1979 has not translated into increases in real wages. Our current "growth at almost any cost" strategy benefits corporations much more than it benefits the average person.
Even the lofty towers of Finance and their close companions Legal, are feeling the hot breath of AI creatures it seems. They are right to be alarmed, for it is within their own ranks that the most unexpected and treacherous uses of this tech will occur.
Sure, some salesman in San Francisco claims that he can sell ads to a Billion South Asians, but "we" all know that it is in the inches of legal documents, and public fiduciary statements, that things will get really messy, really quickly.
Bye bye venture capitalist club -- you were raging tigers and you will tear yourselves into bloody bits in front of everyone.
A judge in Colombia said he used chatGPT: https://forogpp.com/2023/02/03/a-judge-in-cartagena-colombia...
own ranks? treacherous use? check?
When automation came for factory workers, the exploiters cheered. When it came for the service jobs, the exploiters cheered. When it comes for the knowledge workers.. well, the exploiters will still cheer, just that the bullshit job class (https://www.atlasofplaces.com/essays/on-the-phenomenon-of-bu...) will suddenly realize that they were never a part of the exploiter class to being with. They were just servants convinced that they were, like Heinrich Popitz' deck chair guardians on the cruise ship...
Socialize the research and the risk, privatize the profit and future.
Be careful when using this phrase around here, it's a sure-fire way to get grayed out to obscurity. There seems to be a subset of HNers who take offense every time they encounter it, because it's a "platitude".
That doesn't make it any less true, though :)
And you’re right: doesn’t make it less true. I suppose in the gpt space it may be “if it’s free, you’re the QC phase.”
Don’t mix up direction and order of operations here.
MS “giving” is an investment.
GPT being free to use (us) is also a form of investment.
Look at healthcare. Govs (taxpayers) funded research into vaccines that then … get returned to profit to corporations. Not to lowering of taxes.
The future is behind schedule.
This reminds me of the old 2600 crowd poster of "1984 - we're behind schedule".
I don't think this quick find[1] is the original poster, as I seem to remember it referencing the Secret Service rather than the NSA, but it sure does capture the whole idea well enough.
[1] https://steemitimages.com/DQmTEZ3U2U5DrgXDax5wmvaXvWa7rKyaS8...
People love to reach for the dystopian future point of view.
I do remember 20 years ago the ad nauseam complaints about tracking cell phones.
Then 7-8 years ago we had the complaints about Amazon Alexa.
I’m simply talking about millions of people essentially crowdsourcing a solution.
It’s more valuable than wasting all that time complaining about AI
The "first mover advantage" and such is a reality created by consumer/customer behavior, not by "tech" companies using the world as a pool of beta testers.