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Comment by ly3xqhl8g9 | Hacker News Reader

The problem is that Windows 11 and above (try very hard to) require a Microsoft account, because these orcas of computing want to remind you with every step that you don't own the device you bought. Hence it's simpler/better to just virtualize everything.

Besides, there is a very satisfactory feeling when something doesn't work for whatever reason, you do a quick search and see that apparently you must edit some awfully named HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE register or rename some <username>/AppData to .old (just had to do this yesterday, wild), and then, when the quick fix doesn't work, instead of trying to look for more fixes you just give up and start cussing until the VM is restored to a working backup.

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> The problem is that Windows 11 and above (try very hard to) require a Microsoft account, because these orcas of computing want to remind you with every step that you don't own the device you bought. Hence it's simpler/better to just virtualize everything.

Then they do absolutely crazy weird things!

I recently got a new laptop. My account is `adavis@<domain>.com`, my user name on my old laptop using that account is `adavis`.

What did Windows 11 do when I create my user on laptop. Oh it makes my user name `adavi`, yes it truncated my username.

After scouring the internet, trying a few different things to rename my account to no avail, nothing worked! Until I found a command to bring up an account management window that looked dated to the win 2k era ish (and can't be found via any settings window). It allowed me to create a local account with the name `adavis`. I then logged into it, deleted my `adavi` account then was able to associate my new local account with my Microsoft account.

This issue has been bugging me since Windows 7.

Only "proper" solution is to /not/ sign into your MS account when seeting up the new machine for the first time. Create a local account with the name as you want it, and then only afterwards link it with your MS account (if you have to).

Only problem is, latest Win11 installer does not allow you to create a local account anymore at all. So you need to install Win10, do the work-around-dance, and then upgrade to Win11. I only relaized this after halway through my most recent format.

Every time when I ssh into one of my other boxen, I have to remember now to go 'SSH myname@ip' else windows helpfully defaults to 'mynam@IP'

In case that might help you:

You can create a file ".ssh/config" in your user directory, just like under linux, and inside of it put "User myname", and ssh will use that as a default and you won't have to specify it with @ everytime.

If you can't bypass the Win11 online account requirement by being offline during install, then try this:

In the "Let's connect you to a network" page, use these steps:

* Use the Shift + F10 keyboard shortcut to open Command Prompt.

* Type the following command to release the current network configuration and press Enter: oobe\bypassnro

Note: The command is a single phrase without spaces.

Note2: This will reboot the machine and restart the installer again (why?? because fu for not wanting a MS account that's why)

I just use a@a.com which is a locked account someone setup for this purpose. It kicks you to local user setup due to being locked.

Here's the way to do it in video form: https://youtu.be/EOUcvgqOV-0 (JayzTwoCents Youtube channel)

I tried exactly this process, and it did not work. The commands were not found by the command prompt. Possibly because I was installing Win11 Home?

I believe Rufus lets you bypass microsoft account setup on windows 11 when creating a bootable USB

https://rufus.ie/en/

I once tried doing the prudent thing and give them an individualized email address on a catchall subdomain, now my user name on Windows 11 is "win10". Because why ask for a username if you have an email address, right? Might get interesting when your email is administrator@ or guest@, I don't get the impression that anyone at Microsoft has even the slightest idea what actually goes on in their schizophrenic SSO multiverse.

It only uses the first 5 letters so administrator should be fine (“admin” isn’t a built-in). Guest could be interesting, though.

Well I still have a non-signed-in local account on my Windows 11 Pro install, but of course every time I boot up I get a full screen “finish setting up your device” before I’m allowed to sign in. The only options are “continue” and “remind me in three days”. Better yet, I once clicked on continue by accident and the computer hang for three minutes before I shut it down. Now I only reboot when the machine BSODs, which (I kid you not) happens every three to five days.

Thankfully I only use it for some cross-platform testing and occasional gaming.

I have the same issue with "finish setting up your device". I don't understand how this can be legal. In the early 2000 MS got fined for bundling IE as default, but I seriously think they have even more evil patterns now baked into Windows and all it's entangling into 365 etc.

I was thinking the same thing. I heard somewhere that nobody wants to prosecute Microsoft now because their systems are so tied into our our financial and political infrastructure that nobody wants to rock the boat. I also heard that Microsoft uses this as leverage against business that want to speak out against the dark patterns and deceptive practices Microsoft is involved in.

"The New Goliaths: How Corporations Use Software to Dominate Industries, Kill Innovation, and Undermine Regulation"[1] looks like a good book on the subject that I plan on reading.

[1]: https://www.amazon.com/New-Goliaths-Corporations-Industries-...

I absolutely detest Microsoft, but I think that same argument could be made for most of big tech but especially Google, Microsoft, Apple, Oracle or even the link you provided there selling the book, Amazon.

Yes thats true. I think Microsoft is in a special position though because the have the dominate share in the business market. I'm not too interested in focusing on the "Other the bad apples to" as it distracts from the actual problem: "Dark Patterns" and our allowing of them as a society. I take the approach that external manifestations come from our inner states of being from every human on the planet. We allow these things to happen because of where we are at as humans in society, at this current state of our evolution. Maybe it will change someday, maybe not.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/turn-off-notific...

You're welcome.

> Under Notifications, clear the checkbox next to Suggest ways I can finish setting up my device to get the most out of Windows.

Not a Windows user, but that wording of the setting is making me irrationally angry

That, and the opposite of 'continue' (making this permanent change) being 'remind me in three days' or Google's 'not now' comes with this nasty implication that we're all just foolish users who don't know what's best for us and that we'll eventually come around to what we really want to do.

It really, really irks me.

Thank you! This has been driving me nuts on my Win 10 install.

> The problem is that Windows 11 and above require a Microsoft account

It is not quite a requirement, I have my Windows 11 Pro running just fine with no Microsoft account. They do attempt really hard to make it look like it's required though. Even going as far as showing a fullscreen app after Windows update that only has options for registering or login, but luckily Alt+F4 closes that abomination.

Edited. I just didn't even bothered; given the trend, probably Windows 12 or 13 will close the loopholes.

They can never “close the loopholes” entirely, because there are customers that want machines with zero access to public Internet (embedded systems, national security, etc), where a Microsoft account is an absolute non-starter. Closing all the loopholes would be abandoning those market segments (many of which are already trending towards Linux/etc anyway)

I suppose they might make it mandatory unless you have some special version of Windows which is hard to buy (like LTSC). But make it too hard they risk that market. Anyway, now bypassing it involves opening a command prompt window, only the more technical users will do so, and that’s a small enough minority they probably aren’t missing much.

> Closing all the loopholes would be abandoning those market segments (many of which are already trending towards Linux/etc anyway)

Sounds more likely to me that they'll just abandon those market segments.

They actually already make a special version of windows for those purposes and it isn't available to the open market. Government editions that have no telemetry, advertising, or integrated cloud products at all.

I know it is a pipe dream but I wish they could be forced to sell this to the general public.

Are you talking about LTSC or something else?

I have looked into buying LTSC. Apparently you need a business (I own a “shelf” company which has never done anything, but legally it counts), and a Microsoft volume license agreement. I looked into the later. Supposedly there is this trick where you order all these useless-but-cheap Identity Manager CALs to cheaply meet the minimum order requirement for a volume license. But I got a bit stuck working out what to order (or even if it was still available through resellers in my country). I lost interest at that point.

I am not Meph504, but I suppose they meant either Windows Enterprise G or Windows Enterprise G N editions, not Windows LTSC editions.

Is Enterprise G the same thing as “China Government Edition”?

Is there a “US Government Edition”? Is it different from the Chinese one?

How does G differ from LTSC?

Yes it is different, and the difference between gov edition and ltsc is that. The gov edition isn't designed for long term support without change, but to increase security of windows and remove all the telemry and forced integrated services from Microsoft.

This info is publicly available so more detailed info should be easy to find.

All the sources I can find say that Enterprise G is China-only. The US Government (among others) doesn’t use it, even for classified stuff.

Telemetry is a bit of a non-issue for many national security applications-they run on special air-gapped networks with zero direct access to the public Internet, Windows can try to phone home to Microsoft all day long, it’ll never get through.

And disabling telemetry doesn’t require LTSC or Enterprise G. All Enterprise, Education and Server editions support “Diagnostic data off” telemetry level. Even if that’s not the default, most enterprises who want that will build their own install images with that setting configured.

Correct

The last time I tried to do this it was impossible to sign into Office or Xbox on that same PC without logging into a Microsoft Account which subsequently takes over your local login. No way around it other than to not use those apps at all or only running office through a browser. It went like:

Install flight simulator on a Win10 PC with local login only and launch -> sign into an xbox account -> after you enter your name and password, you get a dialog box where you have to agree to sign your Microsoft Account on that PC with two dark pattern options that lead to the same result.

I couldn't find any combination of group policy editor, registry, and services.msc around it. You can either close it and lose access to the game you just paid for, or proceed and then you get your account signed into email and a bunch of other crap you dont want and have to spend hours getting rid of all traces of that account in your system(but it's never 100% gone). Only way to bypass it is to buy the game through Steam.

Between MacOs Linux and Microsoft, Microsoft has the last respect for you as a user and nobody should use it if they don't have to.

I believe, Microsoft account is a requirement for Home editions, not Pro or above.

Pro now requires it unless you know any loopholes.

During the pandemic, a key security component of our remote work architecture was to use Azure AD Conditional Access to restrict users to login in M365 apps from AD joined laptops + some Inutne compliance rules.

A weird situation was that, for a new laptop, we could not login using a domain account, as it was not joined in our domain. We also could not create a local account to join it. Not sure how IT solved that.

Windows 11 allows for the creation of local accounts, it sounds like someone signed in with a azureAD account (work email) joining the azure AD basically drops a lot of default policies on the machine, one of those is disabling local admin.

They can either remove that policy from their azure AD, or remove the machine from the azure ad.

Or update their policies to allow for azureAD joined machines.

I haven't used windows since 2008 and you've just made my day with this post. I have never felt so vindicated.

I envy you

I haven't used windows for 20 years and yesterday I had a teams teleconference using Firefox on Linux. It works noticeably more poorly than most similar systems (jit.si for the win) but it works.

Teams calls are terrible for non-Windows users. :(

If it makes you feel better, I gather they're terrible for Windows users as well

It actually worked decently once I used wired networking. Probably gobbles up bandwidth, typical Microsoft :D

The main problem is that randomly, Teams invite end in some "an unkown error occurred" and when this happens there's no recourse. It never happened with Zoom, Jit.si, Goto Meeting, Google Meet or whatever else I've used.

The absolutely worst of all is WebEx, fortunately it's rapidly disappearing.

Win10 tries pretty hard too, you have to have The Secret Knowledge TM if you just want to use the operating system without sending everything to MS.

Microsoft auth is the leading cause of newly devised cuss-words in the first world.

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