Comment by blindriver | Hacker News Reader

Comment by blindriver | Hacker News Reader

I sympathize as so much to say that I understand and I've been there as an H1B immigrant myself. One of my friends got personally deported for overstaying her H1B, and got a 10 year ban from entering the US.

However, there was never, ever a period of time where any of these H1B holders were ever guaranteed permanent residency in the US. Not a single time in the last 20 years. Every single one of them KNEW what they were getting themselves into, and that not only could they get laid off at any time, but the road to a Green Card was extremely, extremely long (10+ years) and hard.

I personally helped one of my best friends get his Green Card after 10+ years of waiting (he's Indian). But at no point was he under any belief he was owed anything. He hated the situation, but he knew exactly what he was up against, and the same goes for every other H1B holder.

So, it sucks, but it's part and parcel with the privilege of working in one of the best countries, in one of the best paying jobs in the world. None of these H1B holders are owed anything, and if their 60 day timer runs out, yes, they will need to leave.

And I fundamentally disagree with increasing the number of GCs for Indians. The Indian body shops have completely exploited the H1B system by inundating H1B applications, which is why it is so heavily overrun with applicants. We should not reward this bad behavior, so just let everything work itself out over time, without rewarding the bad players.

> None of these H1B holders are owed anything

They are owed common decency. They are owed a responsive government that gives them the ability to plan their lives.

The whole idea of giving employers control over their employees’ ability to stay in a country is perverse.

> We should not reward this bad behavior, so just let everything work itself out over time, without rewarding the bad players.

We should fix the system so “bad players” cannot exploit it.

They are given a tremendous amount of generosity. Once they are in the GC process, they can extend their H1B indefinitely, something that wasn't available when I got my GC. The spouses are eligible for an EAD, meaning they can work whatever job they want. They have 60 days to find a new job. They can buy houses, they can job hop, they have a lot of flexibility considering that they aren't citizens.

There isn't a single Indian H1B holder that doesn't know they need to be here 15+ years to get their GC and if they get laid off, they need to find a job quickly. And yet, they still gamble on it. Very often they win and get their GC. Sometimes they lose and they have to go back to India. It sucks, but they signed up for it. The US doesn't owe them any sort of guarantee besides the flexibility and generosity that they already give them.

We will have to disagree. Forget about the inhumanity in letting someone build up a life and become part of the community for over a decade, and then kicking them out. The US owes its own people to not be giving employers even more negotiating power in setting labor prices by having access to labor they have even more leverage over.

This policy favors no one other than employers who want lower wages. If the US government was not so short sighted, it would be soaking up as much educated and productive labor as it could in the face of declining fertility rates.

There isn't a single H1B holder that doesn't know their work visa isn't a guarantee of citizenship. You calling it "inhumane" is nothing but garbage.

That's like saying the illegal immigrants who cross Rio Grande are fully aware that they may die while doing so. So it is OK to let them die... they signed up for it.

The point is that economic migrants often know they will be mistreated in the destination country, but that doesn't make it morally correct to mistreat them.

Your example is irrelevant. H1B holders are not being mistreated at all. They are being treated fairly. They are coming in on a work visa, and when they no longer have work, they need to leave.

Are you suggesting they should be given permanent residency just for getting a job? I'm sure you'll find that no country in the world does that.

If they are being treated fairly then that's one thing. Implying that if someone knew they are going to be treated unfairly then it is OK to treat them unfairly is another thing. Implying that some people of a particular race has done something bad, so it is OK to punish every person of that race, is well, racist.

I agree. However, since H1B holders are treated fairly, it doesn't apply in your situation.

It has nothing to do with race. You keep saying it's racist when it's not. The system is very fair, and especially fair toward people from India. You can't claim it's racist, you have no evidence, all the evidence points to it's very fair for Indians.

It is not the system I have a problem with. It is your statement that all Indians must pay for the behavior of some (i.e., body shops). Also, your claim of Indian friend reminds me of [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_not_racist,_I_have_black...

You're the racist here, accusing everyone of racism and lying about what they said when it's clearly written above. It's a sad way of living life but I guess some people can't live with the truth.

> They are coming in on a work visa, and when they no longer have work, they need to leave.

This is not accurate, and the crux of my post. They need to leave when they no longer are able to find an employer willing to sponsor them for an H1-B and do all the paperwork.

It would be much less of a problem if what you wrote was true, that the work visa meant they could stay as long as they were working.

If they don't have an employer, they don't have work.

Curious if you are an Indian too. You seem knowledgeable of the situation.

The fact is this system is rigged against people born in India specifically (not Indians, Indians born outside India are fine). If you had a rule that discriminated against, say, Jews, it would be called out for being anti-semitic. If you had a rule saying people born in Israel are ineligible for something, maybe it might be okay even though it largely amounts to the same thing. US is, of course, free to make whatever rules it likes, but it is a rule designed to discriminate against a particular nationality. Can you give an answer for why an H1B holder from India has to face a significantly higher wall than an equivalent H1B holder from, say, Spain?

The reason is because Indian bodyshops exploited the H1B system and flooded the H1B application process with Indian applicants. That's why the vast majority of H1B applicants are Indian. The unfortunate byproduct of this is that all of these H1B holders now try to apply for GC at the same time.

It's not rigged against India, it's backlogged because Indian body shops rigged the H1B system for their own gains and now there's a million H1B Indians all vying for a GC. Sorry, but these are the facts. There isn't nothing specific targeting Indians, it's the fact that so many applications have come from India, and to let Indians dominate the GC allocation would be unfair to the rest of the world.

The purpose of the H-1B visa program is to help US companies fill highly skilled jobs that require specialized knowledge and expertise that are not readily available in the US labor market. Given that purpose, the source country should not matter. If applicants from a particular country are not as skilled as those from another country, then that's certainly something to take into account. But the applicant's skin color isn't relevant, given the purpose.

Nothing you said was relevant to the discussion. H1Bs are not being denied because of skin color as evidenced by the fact that the overwhelming majority of H1B holders are Indian.

The issue is not in getting H1Bs, the issue is in conversion to permanent residency.

The US has a rule that limits the number of Green Cards per country. There is no rule that specifically targets Indians. Indians have over 1 million people in line waiting for a GC. They have flooded the GC application process and now they have to wait in line. The fact that the US even allowed so many H1Bs from India that pushed out every other country shows that the US is giving a lot of benefits to Indians. Should they have instead limited the number of H1Bs per country? Then would they be crying about "racism" against Indians still? Hogwash.

If the US let all the Indians have a Green Card then no other country would be able to get one. To think that Indians want the right to get a green card above and beyond anyone else is utter selfishness. They want what's best for them at the detriment of other people from around the world. The US takes a more generous approach and ensures that every immigrant from every country has a good chance to come into the US.

The rule limiting the Indians goes way back to the 60s. Also, if the issue is bodyshops act against them. At present this is collective punishment for something only a few Indians are engaged in and it doesn't even seem to be effective.

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