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Comment by quantum_state | Hacker News Reader

Was it the same UK government that put Turing into jail?

The state forced him to undergo chemical castration.

Same state kept his achievements and contribution to the war effort a secret up until after his death.

Crazy to think he was convicted in 1952. Same year Elizabeth became Queen and head of state. She could have simply overturned his conviction. The man saved women, men, children, of all races and orientations from an horrible end. Had he not cracked the enigma's cryptography, there would most likely remain nothing today of the crown that persecuted him. Blown to dust by the Luftwaffe.

If only the British government had extended the same humanity to Turing himself.

It’s not crazy, it’s exactly what would be expected from any State throughout history. The people who are crazy are the ones who expect something different. As far back as Plato’s Republic, both theory and practice of State require sacrificing the individual for the greater good - where the greater good is defined by those in power. Of course I fully support the State and you should to or else.

If I understand correctly, the “chemical castration” that Turing was subject to, is the same substance that nowadays US kids with gender disphoria are prescribed.

There’s a difference between using it as treatment vs punishment though. That’s like saying they use the same substance for lethal injections (pentobarbital) for treating anxiety.

The US prescribes Diethylstilbestrol against gender dysphoria? I would like a source for that.

You mean the effects of drugs have different uses in different contexts?! What?! That's amazing!

Next you'll be telling me warfarin can be used for something other than killing rats!

What the UK legal system did to Turing was barbaric.

Let's agree on that.

> Had he not cracked the enigma's cryptography ..

Err - that was some Polish cryptographers, they also designed and built the first bombes (mechanical decrypters).

Enigma wasn't the only or most significant crypto system used by the Germans during WWII either - William Tutte cracked the Lorenz cipher and Bletchley was packed to the gills with talented mathematicians and engineers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Enigma#Po...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptanalysis_of_the_Lorenz_ci...

Wikipedia article "Cryptanalysis of the Enigma" from your first link mentions also Turing's involvement.

Absolutely, he came in late stage and built upon the work done by the Polish mathematicians who reverse engineered and "cracked" the enigma encoding in addition to building the first generation bombes that mechanically automated decryption stages.

I'm a fan of Turing's work, his crypto contributions, his work on the halting problem, his mercury delay line memory tubes, etc.

I'm not a fan of stealing credit from the Poles that deserve it.

The monarchy hasn't directly interfered in government or law like that for a very very long time... it would have established a difficult precedent for Elizabeth II if she'd on day one suddenly did so

I consider this to be direct interference

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vette...

Indeed if it's true and accurate, that would be.

Horrible indeed but it wasn't just Britain that failed in extending humanity. According to Wikipedia, in America, 'Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment and/or hard labor'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...

No, because 1) Turing wasn’t jailed and 2) The Government doesn’t put people in jail; that’s the courts.

Speaking from a US standpoint:

1. The legislature makes laws

2. The courts make judgements based on those laws

3. The police officers drag people into jail

All 3 are part of the government.

The UK isn't the US. The UK government does not work like or even resemble the US government.

Looks the same setup as the US. Courts are part of the government https://www.judiciary.uk/about-the-judiciary/our-justice-sys...

Here’s the relevant part to this thread from the page you linked:

“The justice system is one of the three branches of the state. The other two branches are the executive, or the government, and the legislature, which is the two Houses of Parliament”

In the UK, "the Government" is a phrase more akin to "the x Administration" (where x is the President) in the US; although technically it includes the parliamentary majority as well as the executive.

The latter isn't correct or at least incomplete on two accounts:

- The investigators and prosecutors are dependent on the government.

- A judge sentences, but doesn't carry out the punishment.

But certainly the initiative to investigate and prosecute Turing did directly come from the government. It was after all the PM who apologized for it.

Same state, different government.

In the same sense that the Biden administration put homosexuals, suspected communists and people who violated desegregation laws in jail, perhaps...

Technically he was never in jail - he was given the choice between imprisonment (homosexuality was a criminal offense back then) or chemical castration. He plead guilty to "gross indecency" and was ostracized by the scientific community until his death.

The British government issued a formal apology and overturned his conviction around a decade ago.

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